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It's Thursday evening, Pacific Time, and I swear no one has posted a comment to the contest for literally hours. It's as though it's fading away.

the number of view and comments are less and less it seems. Two years ago it was common for many, many images to get hundreds of views.

It needs some new life breathed into it, although I'm not sure I know what that would be.

Any thoughts anyone?

Sheila

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Well Sheila..I always comment on almost everyones photo's myself but many of those people in turn do not bother to comment on mine. I even comment when I dont have any entries myself. Last week my one "sheep" photo had not one response at all and I commented on everyones entries. Dissapointing. What is also dissapointing is that I commented on your latest boat photo and you thanked everyone by name except me so I removed my comment again. My comment was just above the one by Buddy and after your own comment in which you thanked people for comments made before I posted mine. You thanked Buddy for his comments but never mentioned anything about mine. Oh well I guess it could be just an accidental oversight which could happen to anyone of course so no big deal really. Also I notice that week after week it's almost always the same group of people who's photo's get selected for voting in the contest. I dont say I am the best photographer by any measure at all but I do feel that 1 of my sheep series shots could have been included for voting on in the contest above some of the entries that were selected. Not to say mine were good enough to win but I feel 1 or 2 were good enough for consideration and voting on. Two members even pm'd me to say that is what they felt too.
The only time I ever did have an entry in the contest and that won incidentally you were one of the people who did not bother to send a congratz comment by the way. That was week 34 of 2007. Anyway..yes, I also feel that the site is going downhill what with sometimes being offline for ages with no explanations and the owner of the site not being directly and actively involved by means of feedback or other fun initiatives. Also the site is too often hard to access or is extremely slow to load. There are many more fun sites out there and I for one might unfortunately leave here soon if things dont improve. I really do hope an effort will be made to improve things as I like the site otherwise and there are lots of fine people here.
Regards
Fred

Last edited by FredS on Jul 11th, 2008 at 08:33 AM

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I am compelled to give an opinion. This site once had the potential to be the best on the web. In those days reviews were critical with detailed feedback AND shots were rated 1 to 10 with the average score appearing to be part of what the finalist judges used as selection criteria. Well more and more 7 became 8's and debate began to rage over what number was good vs. very good. This was aggrevated by the site owner shifting the definition for the numbers. Problem hit an all time high when one particular person started bombing ratings of peers and (under a second registered name) started pumping up his own numbers.
The admin solution was to kill the rating system, give no clarity to selection criteria, and provide some randomness on when old shots were brought down and finalist and winners would be posted.
I understand that the admins operate this as a free site and I know banner adds offer only limited revenue for the owner. I can't solve that, but if the owner of this site really wants this to be a top site, the judging rules should be enforced, admin needs to be very routine on time and dates for posting finalists and winners and some short explanation should be posted as to why/how finalist were selected. I would also bring back the peer rating system as this was the single element that helped my photography better than any lens or software purchase. I would also let finalist be selected by a group of accepted site gray hairs who have shown an eye for composition, etc.

I know my recommendation would precipitate controversy - but that may mean more posting and healthy debate.

By the way, my qualification to give this isn't as a great photographer, but rather as one who has gained from some of the sites old ways and a professional that does new business development as a full time paying job.

Just my two cents.

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Buddy


I gaze at the sunset with the woman I love and think F8 at 1/250

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Two thoughts regarding the matter:

1. The initial topic, as Sheila started it. I find it disheartening that traffic has diminished, but I also have to acknowledge my role in that. It is the summer in the northern hemisphere, where the vast majority of posters on the site come from. That means increased vacation, more time away from the computer for most people, more time with family, and, I expect, is part of the reason behind the decreased traffic and postings. Or so I hope. September will likely tell, as well as perhaps a look at last year's summer galleries.

The other contributor is, of course, life. My work load has increased substantially lately, and 11-hour workdays have unfortunately become the norm for me. As always, I hope to return to more regular and substantial contributions. However, this is particular to my situation, not necessarily everyone else, although I am sure there are others in similar boats. I'm on vacation this week, hence I have some sporadic time to post

2. Buddy raises some valid points regarding judging and timing. Another motivator is, of course, prizes. I think it's no coincidence that contest entries dropped off near the same time that the ACDSee prize ran out. Perhaps if a prize could be negotiated again, entries and traffic would increase again. There are many add-ons and plug-ins (in addition to other complete photo-editing programs) that I'm sure wouldn't mind increased traffic and downloads through a little advertising via a contest prize system.

I am wary of a rating system, though, unless admin uses it more as a guide until it proves itself effective. While deserving shots may be left out of the final 6, I thing we have yet to have a winner that didn't deserve it, and therefore I am content to still give Paul (or Stephen if he returns) a bit of reign in that department. Even if we expand the final 6 to the final 10, deserving shots would still be left out. That's the nature of the beast.

Above all, I would love to see this site remain free. We inmates generally do a decent job of keeping the assylum going during the week. BetterPhoto just went to pay-only for the contest (i have no qualms calling them out on this); leaving an opportunity for Bytephoto to step in. Perhaps we should put word out on the BetterPhoto forums?

And - I've championed this before - how about a couple volunteer mods? Or judges? I've benefited greatly from the community here (I think the evidence is easy to see in my gallery); I would certainly trust several of the members here with judging, finalist selection, and moderation.

This site being free is an incredible value. I don't have paying for a gallery in the budget, especially for some of the ones that lack legitimate community. Besides - I just got a new lens and need somewhere to show it off For my part, I will make a more concerted effort to leave useful comments.

steve

edit - wow, that was long. My apologies. Anybody replying to this post will get a photo critique as reward;)

Last edited by skeuos on Jul 11th, 2008 at 04:42 PM

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I should jump in and add my thoughts on these subjects as well.

I am guilty of not being on line as much as normal, mostly for the reasons Steve gave. Summer is definitely a busier time for me with honey do's and the extra yard work in the summer, not to mention work and vacations. The sad thing is I haven't been shooting as much as usual do to a busy schedule and I have a new camera and lens. How pathetic is that.

As far as the the contest/critique section itself, it is always a subject that pops up periodically. Usually, when things start falling away from the old days. I do miss the more to the point critiques that Buddy is talking about. I think there was a point awhile back where some feelings were hurt and everyone got a little gun shy. I do see far more nice shot comments than before and fewer well thought out critiques.

As for the rating system I would not mind seeing it come back in a simpler format. (1 - 10 was quite broad as well as too subjective Excellent to Poor)

There is a site that uses 1,2,3 thumbs up and the same for thumbs down (although 2 & 3 thumbs down is quite harsh. What I like about that system is there is a very specific explanation about each rating that shows up on the photo page for reference while critiquing. It is very helpful in reminding you how to judge a photo.


3 thumbs up Artistically and technically flawless

2 thumbs up High-quality photo yet could be better

1 thumbs up Overall good effort but in need of improvement

0 thumb up Uninspired and uninteresting

You click on the button and it is recorded.

One thing I think we could include more often with a good shot comment, is the reason you think it is good. I think that can help a "newbie" as much as us "gray hairs" as Buddie affectionately calls us.

I, like so many of us here appreciate the community and how the site has helped us improve our skills. Me especially.

So much for my ramble.

Cheers, Kevin

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"You don't take a photograph, you make it."
Ansel Adams

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I've made no secret of the fact that the contest itself is of less concern to me than the quality feedback that this site, specifially the contest gallery, generates. Of course that could have something to do with my derth of finalist appearances but nevertheless I maintain that the input is the prize here. Given that mindset I too, bemoan not only the decline of commentary but also the degradation of good critical input. I'll admit to falling off in that regard and I'll make an effort to rededicate myself to that task.

I've kind of given up on getting any sort of accord with the admins as all our offers and questions seem to fall on deaf ears. But, the admins aren't what make this place special. What makes this place dear to me is all of you. That special mix of ability, experience, and character is what drives this place. I'd like to see several things take place to rejuvenate us. More specific feedback for everyone and a concerted effort to welcome new photographers into the fold. Set aside a few minutes of your Byte time to really look at and critique a shot by a member that you are unfamiliar with. New blood is essential for us to maintain a thriving community otherwise we'll become the "good ole boy" brigade that simply pat each other on the back for our brilliance.

As usual I've been too verbose but my main message is that encougaging new blood to feel welcome here and a concerted effort to really provide quality feedback are the two things I feel are most needed to spice up the joint.

Darren

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I echo the thoughts of many of the posters listed above. I've been on vacation this week, as I'm sure many others have been as well. The place we are staying at had Internet available, but it took three days to get my laptop to co-operate. My cousin and husband fought that battle and finally won. My most opportune time to post is early morning before our daily activities. I'm not sure what the problem is, but with byte, the system runs so slow in the mornings, that I usually give up because I have other things more pressing and can't wait all day for a page to load up.

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Ellen

Last edited by Ellen on Jul 12th, 2008 at 12:25 PM

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everyone who has commented here has given valuable insight into the situation and each reply valid.

i feel for you Fred, as i have noticed that what you put in has not been readily reciprocated and i do hope your critiques will not fade off. please do not go away.

i think it being summer, being outdoor and away from the computer is definitely part of the problem at the moment. during the winter months there is much more activity here, so hopefully it will pick up.

my apologies, i've got no excuse about time, but other pressures in my life seem to have affected my mood. also, i am experiencing a block regarding my photography. i',m feeling distinctly uninspired at present and the shots i am taking are ALL crap. my actiivty has dropped off from the other two sites i normally post to as well.

i love the community at byte and it will be dire if it loses its impetus. having read others feeling above, i shall make a concerted effort to participate again.

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sorry, saying all of them 'valid', sounds really patronising. what i meant to say was, lots of different /varied reasons and views to the situation, yet all pertinent.
words eh?
pippa

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Darren had some very good points. I agree that many newcomers are ignored. Us old timers have learned to know each other and their photos and feel more comfortable to comment. Likewise, and I'm to blame for this, photos that we consider "below average" or not understood are ignored instead of suggesting helpful criticism.

Submitters are sometimes to blame. Everyone likes a pat on the back, but some people here do not take criticism kindly. They make me feel like I cannot leave an honest comment because they take it personally and strike back. Afterall, it is only one man's opinion.

Personally, I would like to see the contest dropped. It creates a competition and I find it unhealthy. I would perfer everyone to comment on my photos good or bad. That is how one learns; not by how many "votes" one obtains.

Again, these are only my opinions. No poison pens letters, please. --Rick

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Rick Cox
http://photo.net/photos/rrdjserv

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Rick, that's a very interesting take on this and probably very healthy too.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, but since this has been and still is a good learning place for me I like to think that I would still participate if it wasn't competitive too.

However, I suspect that since the critique section of the site is all but ignored I have a feeling it's the competition that draws people.

Sheila

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Rick, that's a very interesting take on this and probably very healthy too.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, but since this has been and still is a good learning place for me I like to think that I would still participate if it wasn't competitive too.

However, I suspect that since the critique section of the site is all but ignored I have a feeling it's the competition that draws people.

Sheila

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As one of those who has nearly 'dropped off' the site, I'll share my feelings too.

1) The rating system when it existed went from 1-poor to 5-good to 10-excellent. If you had the nerve to rate anything a 5 (or lower) - and put your reasoning, you suddenly had a barrage of e-mails from certain individuals complaining about your attacks as being personal. There were also several very public and rude comments from those same individuals on other people's photos. It really left a sour taste. On top of which - 8 - with 'nice photo' was becoming the norm. I would have much rather had a 5 with feedback than an 8 with 'good photo'. There used to be so much more to this site than this. That drove away several of the people who left extremely constructive criticism and taught many of us loads.

2) For a long time, the photo contests weren't closing on time and photos were left up for long periods. I know several of us offered to help the moderators as we do enjoy the free site, but nothing came of that. I, too, see a lot of 'regulars' in the photo contest finals even when I see other images just as, if not more so, deserving. Of course that's my humble opinion and I'm well aware how subjective photography judging can be. (Lot like figure skating but if we knew the system e.g. 50% technical, 25% composition, 25% artistry we might have an easier time understanding.)

3) My biggest factor - lack of time. I feel that if somebody takes the time to comment on my photos I absolutely want to make sure I comment back on theirs. (And if I ever miss anyone, it's through sheer oversight, not deliberate slight.) I've been so busy with work, family, and life in general that whilst my camera goes everywhere with me and I'm looking more towards becoming a professional, it takes a lot of time, so I can't give the feedback I'd like to so I just don't post. I also found that several people went away from the suggestions for improvement. What you like, what you don't like and suggestions for making it better all help the photographer and the others reading learn from the experience.

4) I tried spending some time in the Critique section but because the interest lay in the Contest section I only had time to do one or the other, not both.

I like the thumbs up, thumbs down idea, but think if you're going to use a thumbs down, then a pop-up must 'require' feedback. What is it you don't like, and what would you do to improve it.

And to those still here who do provide good feedback thank you! I still check the site if I'm looking for specific info - or an example of something I'm trying to achieve. I'm going to try to participate more but until I give up that day job... ;)

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Suzan...
www.photoswithfinesse.com

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Because this site has taught me so much in the past I feel I should throw my .02 cents worth in.

For me...there are multiple reasons that I have slacked off in the last few month's....I will list them in order.

1. The economy... As a owner of three dental offices, We have found it nessesary to not rehire lost employees. This has created a tremendous amount of work for me...12-14 hour days most of the time.

2. The summer adds to the mix

3. I am very very passionate about growing my photography skills and lately Byte has not helped much. I an not saying that the talent and skill level is not here....It is...and I could learn alot from my fellow members at byte...But we have all (myself included) fallen into this "attaboy" trap and the constructive, respectful critique is just not there anymore.

I have been investing my byte time in mass reading on composition and processing of my work.

I hope that I did not offend anyone and I will try to make an effort in helping this site to rebound to what it use to be.

Cheers, Joe

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www.JMdigitalphotography.com

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Joe, I appreciate your candor. There are a lot of atta boys but there have always been those.

I like to think of my comments as constructive and truthful, something that is not always well received here and has gotten me into trouble from time to time.

Joe, by concentrating on composition you're doing the best possible thing a person can for their photography. And your work has improved and improved always since you first came here.

Have a good summer everyone.

Sheila

are

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