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I have been reading the now infamous discussion about changing posts midweek. Rather than responding to the threads emotionally, I tried to look at the subject and responses objectively. I found two things that were common among all of those that chose to voice their opinion.

1). Each member likes to get critiqued and learn from the photo contest. As a matter of fact, most members consider that aspect the most important part of the contest. Although it is a contest, and each member considers it competition, it has other traits that make it so popular.

2). Many members feel that it is important to give critiques and feedback to others that enter the contest. It gives the contest (and the site in general) a great sense of community. Most of the members have learned how to give constructive, helpful criticism, without making the photographer feel belittled or abused.

Instead of adding to a discussion that seems to be going nowhere, I would like to offer the administrators and members of this site the following solution:

It has been mentioned that the site already has a “critique” forum, but no one looks at the forum, and it is not nearly as popular as the weekly contest. I would like to propose that the site have a WEEKLY critique forum, structured much like the POTW contest is now. It would run for one week, then all of the posts would be removed, and started over again in the following week. Members would be allowed to have 2 posts in the running forum AT ONE TIME, but would be free to change posts as often as he/she would like, based on the feedback from other members. I think that this would be much more popular with the members than the current forum that is specifically for critiques. I for one have many photos that I haven’t posted in the contest, but I feel if I could post it and use the other members as a sounding board to help me, they may be “contest worthy” someday.

To the Administrators:
I realize that another weekly forum would increase your work load. But I feel that the benefits of another popular forum would help promote the site, and is in line with the sites mission statement: photographers helping other photographers in a friendly, learning condusive atmosphere. There would have to be rules established. One I suggest is that if a shot was posted in the critique forum one week, it could not be eligible to post in the contest the same week (but would be eligible the following week). This would prevent hard feelings and not clash with the contest. Plus if this forum ends up being as popular as the contest, think of the ad $$$ (-:

To the Members:
Each member must be sensitive to others feelings when critiquing posts. This forum could have the potential to get some folk’s feeling really bruised, and I think that critiques should be objective rather than emotional. If we all want to learn from others (and I think we all do), we must be sensitive about how we TEACH others.

Please voice your opinion on this idea. I can’t imagine not posting 2 photos each week to the contest. This site has become a piece of my life, and I sympathize with those that have decided to leave because the environment has become destructive, rather than instructive.

Respectfully,

Sam

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Sam......I think it is an outstanding idea!!

As for the logistics...that would be for admin. to comment on.

Thanks for the suggestion/solution.
Joe

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Sam,

I think you have an interesting idea. I've also been thinking about how best to encourage more constructive critique of non-contest shots. I like what Kevin said elsewhere (and you mention here) about the community feeling of the sight. I haven't been around long, but I certainly enjoy it. The last thing we want is to hurt that.

The only idea I've come to is posting a few more shots and then trying to rally the troops in a Teddy Roosevelt style up San Juan Hill to the critique forum. That probably would've been a lonely charge. Your idea helps because there would be less of a chance of overwhelming people with hundreds of shots to sift through.

Either way, I think the biggest problem may be navigational. Look up top. Look left. Do you see links to the critique forum? I don't. Only when viewing photos is there a critique forum link, and it's small and on the left. Barring a complete redesign, I think one of the top links could be replaced with a critique forum link - either old forum or this new style. I suggest either the photo sharing or photo editing links could potentially be replaced by critique forum links.

Anyone else have ideas?

steve

Last edited by skeuos on Oct 25th, 2007 at 08:54 PM

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Sam

I think your suggestion / solution is a very good idea, Here's why.

(1) It would rejuvinate a powerfull tool that is currently stagnant

(2) Eliminate the editing or changing of Contest entries showing only members best work

(3) It would be an environmet which members can explain there techniques and Knowledge of such fully. Assisting those who choose to give it a shot

(4) Help those who don't know how to be critical of others work giving them a place to start, and learn to digest critiques given to them without prejudice.

(5) Allow for a no pressure environment

I do however have several concerns One being some members won't participate in giving there views, but want others views.

I feel it needs to be a give and take situation. Another words if you are going to load photos for critique then you must also be willing to critique others and do so. otherwise we are back to stagnation.

(2) How will it effect the commentary on the contest page

(3) How will it effect the contest page as far as viewing will people be more interested in the critique forum than the contest page

These are just a few things that come to mind i'm positive there are more.

As Steve mentioned there is the issue of a button I don't know about the rest of you but I rarly log out if ever.

Travis

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Joe, I hope if not this suggestion, then any other valid alternative would be benificial to the site. I think the admins are willing to strengthen the site and environment if we give them viable suggestions.

Steve, I'lm glad you feel that way. I have learned so much from the others on this site for almost two years now. If not for the critiques I get each week, I would not be at the level of skill I have now, and I hope to continue to grow. The prominent link is a great idea, and like my boss says when he wants to change a part design "It's only a click or two" to make the change (-:.

Travis, I like your pros and cons. I agree with all of the pros. It was my intent that the contest stay exactly the way it is now, with comments and critiques to continue. However, if you want to post a "test" shot to get feedback, then the critique forum would be the place. I think that the two forums could compliment each other, rather than compete. I agree that it must be a give and take situation. I myself am guilty of not commenting on other's posts lately due to a heavy work load, but I try to comment when I can. I'll be willing to make an extra effort to make it this site stronger if I can in the future.

Thanks for the responses!

Sam

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Sam,

I appreciate that you've devoted some serious thought to this issue and I think your idea has some merit but I'd suggest that rather than putting the onus on admin that as members we take the lead. Surely there are enough of us interested in seeing the critique gallery become more active that we could begin posting there and critiqueing there on a regular basis. While this won't address some of the issues such overcrowding in that gallery it might get that aspect kick started. I'm willing to start uploading a shot or two to that gallery every week and spend some time critiqueing there. If we get a dozen or so interested contributors we might just make it work.

Darren

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I didn't mean to imply that Sam's idea wasn't worthy only that perhaps waiting for Admin to affect a change seems not proactive. Perhaps if we get the Critique section moving that will help spur admin to look at some changes. In the thread I started if you don't find the image I shared worth a comment that's fine, upload and link one you like critiqued and I promise I'll give it a go.

Darren

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Darren,
Your second post took the words from my mouth. Perhaps if we restart the other critique forum, admin would find it worth their time to address some of the issues with the critique forum you mentioned in your other thread, and maybe implement suggestions mentioned here. I have a shot or two I'll upload later. Up San Juan Hill!

I still want a more prominent link to the critique forum

steve

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Hi Guys,

It's great to see this positive community spirit here at BytePhoto... your suggestions are highly appreciated and will be taken into consideration. I'm actually working on moving the "Photo Critiques Gallery" around so access and functionality is hopefully better.

Keep the suggestions flowing...

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Kind regards
Stephen

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I’m glad Sam took up the suggestion to revitalise the critique section and it looks well underway.

I cant give logistical input but I do think that however its done (hopefully admin can sort it) the most important aspect is to show clear navigation to it.

To tell the truth, I ‘ve only ever stumbled upon the old critiquing forum when aimlessly perusing byte. I wouldn’t know how to get there now and neither to the monthly themed competition either. Is monthly themed competition the same as the monthly challenge - I am confused so clarity is essential for this to work.

Buttons at the top of the page I think is a good idea, like we have at the moment with the nine that are already there. (news, reviews, forums, photo sharing etc.) can two more be squeezed in? one for critique and one for the themed monthly competition please.

Brilliant to see admin is up for it.

pippa

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Bravo Sam. You have gone the extra mile. Not only has the problem been identified but a you have a well thought out solution. That is where progress begins.

I feel this thread is headed in the right direction. Like minds all headed in the same general direction with a goal in mind. That is what a successful community or family does to stay healthy.

I like the one week critique section for comments and a separate contest section for competition. Sam's rules make sense about a photo not being in both sections the same week.

I have an idea to propose. Perhaps the winner of the contest is chosen by the administrators because they would not be biased. They could post their comments as to why they picked that photo. It no longer would be a popularity contest. Or, maybe they chose the top six, give their explanations for choosing those and continue to let everyone vote as usual.

I would like to say that I am very pleased to be part of this community. I, like so many others have gained so much insight and knowledge from those who participate. I am very thankful for everyone who has pushed and challenged me to want to improve.

Once again, thanks Sam for taking the lead.

Kevin

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Kevin-I really think you're onto something here!

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I Also have a couple of photos ready for the critique section, and will up load them as soon as i get home. Darren, Good thinking!

Sam. My hats off to you!

Kevins, Thoughts and Idea's are superb. I feel they would solve even more issues we have all faced. I have felt from the begining that if you made the top six, You win. Added commontary from the judges would be very usefull and give insight.

I would still like to vote for the top photo of the week though. Perhaps to keep things on the up and up we could all give an explanation as to our choice. After all this is about the Photography. The winner could still receive our appreciation of there work.


I also feel that this communitiy has given my hobbie direction. I would be very lost without the people and art they produce, not to mention the instuction everyone gives. These things have improved my skills tremendously.
I might even learn how to spell and make real paragraphs, with punctuation, one day.

Travis

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Darren, Pippa, Andrew, Steve, and Kevin:

Thanks for responding! I like these types of discussions, I think that it shows what I've always thought of this community: A bunch of good folks willing to share and help each other grow artisticly and sharpen our photographic skills.

Steven, thanks for your response! You and Paul have created a great vehicle for avid photographers to communicate and share what we all love so much. I know you will take all the suggestions seriously, and I appreciate the efforts you make to help the community grow.

Sam

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It is never to late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot

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