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deleted by JoeMc

Last edited by JoeMc on Aug 27th, 2007 at 06:25 PM

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As Joe has indicated I didn't think expect the twist that the discussion took; my comments were tno in the present direction.

Tony

Last edited by Tony Ward on Aug 27th, 2007 at 09:12 PM

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This subject seems to pop up every so often. SEnt you a PM

Kevin

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Joe, I'm posting this in the spirit of answering your question as candidly as I know how. Not to be argumentative.

I tried to offer sincere feedback to your images some time ago and was totally misunderstood by you. Even when I tried to explain you still chose to remain angry and castigate me. That continued even when another member tried to reason with you about it.

I haven't posted (except once) to an image of yours since, because I'm not going to leave myself open to that kind of reaction.

You have to wonder if your response to me had some effect. Are people more guarded in their critiques as a result?

Something to chew on.

Sheila.

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So be it.

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cir·cum·spect (sűr'kəm-spĕkt')
adj.

Heedful of circumstances and potential consequences; prudent.

Joe,

I really haven't felt like contributing much this week but I feel compelled to add my 2 cents to this somehat acrimonius thread. I find that it is best in this internet age to give folks a bit more leeway than you might otherwise bestow. Without the benefit of body language and tonal clues internet discourse can be tricky and often lead to misunderstandings as to intent.

I've always been pleased with Sheila's honest and forthright critiques. She may not be the most tactful or adept at softening the blow when she finds something lacking but I've never found her to be openly antagonistic. I will say here that I can understand your displeasure at her comment. It would have been nice though if you had given her a bit of leeway or at least not responded so vehemently.

The reason I started this post off with the defintion of circumspect is because she has a valid point in regards to your original confrontation. I must admit that I was a bit leery about providing anything other than positive comments for any of your images for fear that you might misinterpret them.

I'm hoping you don't see this as me siding with Sheila because I value both of your contributions to this site. I doubt my attempts at healing this rift will be successful but I had to try.

And Joe, the thing I find most worrisome is that you made Sheila feel unwelcome here. Your statement about others messaging you wasn't needed and I really wish you hadn't included that bit of negativity.

Submitting pictures to a critiquing site requires not only a thick skin but also a willingness to allow for differences. Critiquing pictures effectively on these sites requires a bit of tact as well as a willingness to reword on occasion.

For what it's worth there's my take and I hope it doesn't alienate anyone.

Darren

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Okay, Joe,

I think it's time you stopped attacking me personally in here .

You have stepped over the mark and I am reporting this thread to Admin.

You value honesty? Well this is me being honest and giving you a heads up.

Sheila.

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Joe, I am unfamilar with the comment Sheila posted on one of your pictures. I did look for it but couldn't find it. I was however very impressed with many shots in your gallery. Some great work there.

Sheila has helped myself and countless others on many many occasions with her comments and critiques on our pictures and I have always welcomed her honesty and straight talking. She has made a massive contribution to Bytephoto over the years and is without a doubt in my opinion one of its most valuable members. She was also one of my top choices for Bytephoto member of the year in 2006.

I say all this because the picture you paint of her is undeserved. I know for a fact that Sheila has never had anyone removed from this site. If someone has been removed then you can be sure they deserved it and admin would have made the decision using evidence presented to them at the time. I've a pretty good idea who we are talking about here and the circumstances involved and in my opinion admin had no choice.

You say also that you have had numerous pms from other members about Sheila and advising you to stay away from her. Well I can probably guess who those pms were from. Fair enough, thats their opinion. What I will say is there are many many members at Byte who look forward to her comments each week and value her honesty and straight talking, myself included when I was posting. I've posted pictures in the past and had comment after comment of "Great shot", "Fantastic", "Well done" and then I got to a comment that gave me a little feedback and a lower score. When I was immature in my photography I allowed myself to take it to heart and get upset but when I look back it was that one photographer who had the guts to give me some straight talking who I learnt from. I like the praise and its good for the ego but I learn and improve from straight talking and critiques and its those comments I look forward to and value the most now.

As I said I couldn't find the origional comment Sheila made, if you can provide a link then I'll take a look, but from the evidence you present here I fail to see how you can label her an agressor.

I don't know you Joe but I do know you take a wonderful photograph. It was a pleasure looking through your gallery. I do also agree with your origional post. Bytephoto needs more straight talking and constructive critique. Something I find very lacking at Byte of late and one of the reasons I rarely post in the POTW anymore.

Matt

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This is not exactly original, but I've got to ditto what Matt has said here Joe. And I do remember your post, as I was "the other person" that wrote to you then, trying to understand how you could have taken Sheilas comment so very wrongl

My manner of critique has been scrutinized many times here.... but I've only been trying to offer advice. As Sheila was to you. And does for so many. If one doesn't oooo and ahhhh about the beauty, then many many times it's taken as an insult.

Sheila has been nothing but helpful to me, and many others here. And she's stuck at it through thick and thin, unlike myself, who for several reasons took a needed break. She simply does not deserve this.

Carolyn

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JoeMc Has deleted all his post.....This thread went somewhere That I didn't intend!!

__________________
www.JMdigitalphotography.com

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As Matt says “there are many many members at Byte who look forward to her comments each week and value her honesty and straight talking“ , I am one of those members and I take a great interes in what Sheila has to say on the photographs posted here.

As has been said before, this site will be all the poorer without Sheila if she is made to feel unwelcome here - I have followed all the comments from way back and fail to see why on earth anyone should take umbridge at her comments. it’s the aggressive response Sheila receives to her “straight talking” that needs checking.

It’s a shame this thread took a nasty turn and in my opinion Sheila’s contribution to it is valid - just read what she has to say, respond if you will but no need to get hissy.

pippa

Last edited by pippafox on Aug 28th, 2007 at 12:35 PM

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