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This issue came up a few years ago and somehow got sorted out, although I forget how.

While I see the photo contest as more than simply a contest, inasmuch as it allows for critiques, I feel that it's become confusing and is not serving all who post to it.

There seems to be an increasing amount of posting of an image and then, when getting a critique. making sometimes big changes and posting the altered image within the same post but keeping all of the comments whether they're pertinent any longer or not. I find it frustrating and confusing to click on a post only to realize the image I'm looking at is no longer the one that people are talking about. How can anyone possibly learn unless the image that was originally commented on is still there.?

As an example. Image A is posted and there is a critique that suggests a crop. By the time I look at this post Image A has gone and Image B is now there - I have no idea what it was like in the first place so I don't know how it has been improved. I can't look at Image A and say "oh, I see what so and so means by noise." or cropping or exposure etc.., whatever it is. That's how I learn as a viewer, by looking at Image A while its under discussion so I know what is meant by the critique. I can't learn from it otherwise. Image B is now apparently improved, but from what? I also can't read perhaps different opinions on the original image...this is a subjective medium, I'd like to hear differing opinions and them make my own judgement.

Then there's the contest aspect...because it is a contest, leave us not forget that. Images are increasingly being entered specifically to get feedback in order to improve the entry to contest level. There is another forum expressly for that.

Personally I'm finding it frustrating to click on an image only to find it's been edited, yet the old comments are still there talking about an image that isn't!


Sheila.

Last edited by northbeach on Apr 5th, 2007 at 09:29 PM

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Sheila,
I see your point with editing photos and repost with the original comments attached. Sometimes it can be confusing. I have done this occasionaly myself, but always later in the week after I thought that everyone has commented that were going to. But I do it to receive additional critiques on whether the suggestions were good or not, which can lead to some other interesting comments.

Your point about using the contest as a critique platform is also well taken. However, the contest is the BEST place to get feedback and learn on this site. I have posted photos in the Critique forum in the past, with no comments what so ever. I took a browse through the forum today, and looked at at least three of the "most active" pages in each catagory. I think I counted maybe 10 comments out of some 100 photos that were posted. Most of these were "nice shot" type comments, which I feel is hardly a learning experience. I must admit, I very rarely look at any other photos other than the ones that are in the contest. Time just does not allow me to. The contest is a competition in the fact that there is a winner. However, the constructive comments that I get in the contest makes me a winner each and every week, as I get lessons from from great photographers, absolutly free!

Sam

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It is never to late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot

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Sam, I can appreciate your point of view about not changing an image until the end of the week when most people will have commented. However, even then I believe it needs to be a new post so the old comments are gone and comments are as fresh as the new image.

It is too bad the critique forum is so poorly used. Personally, I wouldn't mind the contest having no place for comment...you could post to the critique forum and when you feel your image is ready for competition you post in contest and take an equal chance with everyone else with no feedback at that point. I certainly don't go around in real life posting to contests I think are inviting a standard of entry that I'm not up to yet. What's the difference? Or is this contest at Byte not to be taken seriously?

For myself, I have always tried to be helpful, but I'm not going to be offering feedback to images that have been changed and still have old comments. Nowadays I feel like I'm wasting my time, time I'd rather spend on the images no one looks at because they're so caught up in the ever changing ones.

I appreciate your take on this, Sam.



Sheila.

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Good discussion.

I think a key to the comments and critiques as well as the contest is the limit of 2 photos per artist per week. This allows a variety of styles and for many to get feedback. ....I have rarely seen an final 6 that didn't have worthy shots, and rarely are the final 6 shots that needed mid-week editing, so I am ok with all of that.

That said, I think Sheila has a good point that edits and crops need to be noted in a reply and "originals" need to be linked back into the photographer's gallery - because as has been pointed out, that is how we learn. I personally keep a word document where I often paste new information into when I see an interesting edit or piece of "how to" advice so that over time I am creating a small manual of good practices. This always works best if I have before and after images to refer to.

There is one other "contest" issue that has recently bothered me. More and easier to use software is coming out to allow "virtual oil painting" conversions and other similar effects. While basic cloning, levels, curves and sharping are similar to historic darkroom tools, On a personal level, I love some of the virtual painting effects I have seen by others. I am even thinking of aquiring some tools to do this for my personal printing; however, I wonder how much special effects should be allowed in this particular contest.

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Buddy


I gaze at the sunset with the woman I love and think F8 at 1/250

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I think a good example of what I'm talking about is jpope42's shot of the accordian boy (the wide shot). I made a suggestion, Jim responded but he didn't change the image...anyone can still look at it and know what we're talking about, form an opinion and add their input. A person can learn from that kind of discussion.

Your idea of creating a log of your work and tips is a good one, Buddy. If you're up for it I think it would make a good subject for the Photographer's Lounge.

Sheila.

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