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Ratings...

Since Ratings don't count anymore.... and most have quit using them.... how's about disabling them?

Carolyn

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Good idea! I got slammed really hard a bit ago for "under rating" a photo. Accused of trying to undermine the competition. Apparently the accuser was not aware that the ratings don't count.

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Chris in Maine

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I agree. There's no value to ratings when the majority give 8's and 9's and several freak out when somebody uses the system as intended and gives a lower mark.

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Suzan...
www.photoswithfinesse.com

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Or — on the verso.... someone (a) rates a photograph a 10. Then some (b) comments on what is nice, and what could be improved. It's easy for the poster to be enamoured with person (a), and disregard the comments of person (b).... 'cause hey, after all, their photo got a 10, so it must be perfect! Now, in the scheme of things, just how many "perfect" images are there? I'm starting to see a lot more perfect scores ....
To me, this site is about showing our work, and learning from the critiques. Taking them with the proverbial "grain of salt". If level of expertise in giving critiques were equal, and all personal feelings were put aside, I could see the value of rating. Or if ratings were monitored by the admin, that would (did) keep them more in line, but that opens up a whole can of worms. We've been there/done that, and have pretty much chosen amongst ourselves to not rate... simply comment.
On the other hand, it's also a contest area, and the admin is picking the top 6. Ratings don't count. I think this is working well.
To me, it would help us all to avoid the mental "but this person gave me a 10, why it this other person telling me what's wrong conflicts.
Boy can I ramble..... Hope this makes sense...
Carolyn

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I’m reading this and will monitor the thread … however any decisions on the rating system will need to wait until RVB returns ...

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Best Regards
Paul

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Carolyn and Suzan,
I wholeheartedly agree with you both. I have noticed that an image that technically speaking is just average will obtain a 10 rating while an image that is technically advanced may only receive a 7 or 8. Most people don't understand the rating system and never have, so they rate on an emotional level instead of a technical level. Photography is both subjective and for most people emotional too, but on a site such as this, I believe most people are looking for feedback whether it is critical or positive. Many posters here on Byte are looking for a way to improve their skills and most get a pretty good idea where they stand from the feedback they receive on the Contests page.

I've got to say that Paul Larson and Stephen aka RVB have done a terrific job with BytePhoto as a whole. I've visited some other sites and the rating systems on those other sites definitely leave A LOT to be desired! Another site which will remain anonymous allows people to literally cut and paste comments from one photo to another constantly, so that the comments and the ratings add up to a big ZERO in my humble opinion which caused me to leave that site as fast as possible.

Of all of the sites I've visited on the web, BytePhoto is hands down the best I've found so far. Things are always changing here and yes we've been through some rough bumps in the road so to speak, but that is the nature of internet and its netizens.

Sorry to ramble, but that's my two cents worth on the idea of ratings.

Dave

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Another vote here for losing the ratings. I do like the rating system here at Byte but at the moment it's not being used how it was intended and I feel it's probably doing more harm than good.

Matt

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I'd like to see the ratings disappear too. Since we've stopped rating I think the quality of work has actually gone up - who you know if not an issue anymore.

Sheila.

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I've suggested this on several occasions. One time in particular was when Matt C originally suggested the Challenge competition.

I know 2 of my suggestions have already been adopted, those being the hiding of the final 6 vote results until the end of the comp (to help prevent bias being employed in voting for a winner) and also the change of wording in the members commentary section when scoring and 'rating' an image, to read 'member's opinion' instead of 'rating'

I mention this because they're related to peer scoring or rating.

I have always felt that this site lends itself to being a good natured site, helpful for those both interested and already 'good' at their photography to lend and share valuable information.

Without intending to offend anyone (and I've mentioned this when suggesting we 'lose' the ratings previously) I'd be fairly confident that none of the members here at Byte are actually professional photographers, nor accredited judges of photo competitions. I'm happy to be corrected tho. I'm not suggesting that some folks aren't successfully selling their images. I know I am. In Australia, a professional photographer (apart from recognised talent and accreditations) is considered 'professional' when their photographic sales exceed $20,000 per annum. If anyone is doing that here, then they should duly be appointed a judge of the final 6/Challenge comps.

So let's keep this cool site fun, great to be a part of, and non biased. By the way, I still think that judges should be known and we (as submitters) should not be able to influence a winnerin voting for the final 6 -JMNSHO

I've noticed in the last few months that many new people have joined the site and are contributing and posting their images, and asking photo related questions - which is fantastic. I've also noticed many scores of 9 and 10, for images which, to be honest are not perfect, once again I do not wish to offend. Even a score of 8 is considered an excellent image, with some room for improvement. If a scale is out of 10, then only an image with no improvement necessary should hit a 10. And personally, if someone has the ability to vote a 10, then they should be suitably accredited.

With Paul as busy as he's obviously been, he's not had time to reitterate and clarify what these score mean or are intended to do, and they've got a little out of control (again).

Therefore, as Byte is not a site that offers vast sums of money or prizes for submissions that may be subject to accredited judging (and you can hardly expect a 'free' site to do this) I think that removing the ratings score option and leaving the comments section be, could only improve what valuable information could be left for a submission.

Plenty of folk here are good (and excellent) photographers - and have the prizes/recognition to back that up. Many of us enjoy the continued submissions of those guys. To keep those guys and newbie photographers coming back, I think it's not just up to us to suggest removing something, but to suggest something to replace the 'scoring'...perhaps some sort of merit system, if other than commentary is still sought.

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Graham, very few people rate anymore and then it's usually new folks. Rating has become redundant.

For myself, I'm content with commentary and don't feel the need for some kind of "merit" award. I'm happy if an image of mine gets into the final six but it is truly the positive responses of the regulars here whose work I admire that means the most to me. Because that's day to day on the site. It's not the people who drop in every six months, flash something brilliant and then leave again...it's the people who support my efforts week, are generous with their knowledge, week in and week out that make this site good for me.

Sheila.

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Sheila I'm fully aware that fewer people rate.

Maybe you should consider why people might not post for months at a time...Perhaps it's that some of us that have something constructive to add, yet don't get much commentary and/or receive odd scoring when we do submit images, and even perhaps because of that odd scoring, don't come here for a few months at a time...

I find it strange that because I may not constantly bump my image with thankyous every time a comment lands, that an image doesn't get much comment of late.

Just as it happens, how an image gets into the final six now as opposed to how an image got into the final six previously (couple of months back) has recently changed because of the rating/scoring being fairly redundant. The (higher) rating previously seemed to always influence the final six.

I don't need a merit award either.

Why do people 'leave', do you think?

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Graham, I didn't actually have you in mind when I wrote of people who come in one every six months...

As for writing thank you's to keep images up front, yes I respond to posts. It makes no difference to the finals and I like to interract with people who critique my work. I don't usually get high hits on most of what i post. I have a post in the final six this week that didn't get a lot of notice after the first day or so. That's really okay with me.

Why do I think people leave? Some people I think only post when they feel they have something special and I actually think that's rather good. We use the contest for everything instead of using the critic forum. The contest is a catchall and not a place where most people only post their best work and I don't think that's what it was intended for.

Other people leave because they get no response when repeatedly posting. Others feel their work is unappreciated perhaps.

There must be a myriad of reasons and I'm not yet a mind reader ~ I'm still working on "curves"

Bottom line this is a good site and for the most part i think one gets honest opinions and I've come to learn that what I think is just knockout is someone elses "ho hum".

Sheila

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Sheila, thanks, thought you were referring to me.

But then lots of regulars, or semi regulars nowdays go for a bit of a hiatus. I can name 4 or 5 Byters that do this, not including myself. I think this is sometimes due to submitting an image that receives little or no comment, or perhaps not much success...when we pour our heart into something, with less than ideal results it can have a negative affect on us.

Totally understandable.

Incidentally, I wasn't referring to yourself in relation to commenting when receiving a thank you.

You're right tho, in that if antything I've shot for a project or otherwise doesn't cut it with me, then I won't post. I don't see the point in posting something I feel is substandard...that's me being anal about my own work I guess.

Yes, folks disappear when it's apparent - correctly or otherwise, that their work is not appreciated.. That's not good, and I've toyed with suggesting that in the competition section (like with the Challenge section) that maybe images should be anonymous. Probably not the answer, but you'll never take the 'subjective' out of photography and we have to work out ways around this.

I'm pretty guilty lately for not having commented on images recently, but when I do, I always jump to the back and work on what would be classed as 'least popular' which in fact may not be true. It at least gives everyone a fair go at 15 seconds of fame. It's time consuming but I'll pick up my game on this one...

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I too go to the back and work from there for the same reasons - there's lots of 'newbie's who don't get comments which must be kind of frustrating. I think that's a great suggestion for all of us who post, going forward. Go to the last pages and pick 5 photos with no comments. (I found two super ballerina shots back there last week!) Add your suggestions for improvement. No ratings required. In fact, I find it way easier to comment and suggest than I did when I had to attach a number to it. (And Graham, your suggestion of anonymity does have merit - although it does then make it tougher to build friendships as many of us have done on the contest pages. I always like starting off a comment with the name of the person so it's more of a 'chat' instead of just a comment on a computer screen.)

As for not posting for months at a time, 'tis the season of nuttiness and chaos - for many of us - and I must admit I don't think my camera has stayed in it's bag for this long over the past 3 years! Bring on the New Year, a recharge of the creative juices and more photos to Byte! I always feel guilty posting a shot and then not having time to comment on others - that's why I haven't posted for a while. It's part of my inner sense of duty to this great site! If I'm going to post & learn then I'd better have time to give back!

So here's to no ratings, more comments and a very Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to everyone!

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Suzan...
www.photoswithfinesse.com

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