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Sheila (btw why does Matt call you Sarah? ), there's no need of categories here, since we will all be taking pics on the same theme.

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-- Varun
[ http://www.varunabhiram.com ]

Last edited by varun on Dec 8th, 2005 at 07:24 PM

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A problem that is inherent with this site is that not all photos are getting equal judging and so for this competiton to go forward I don't know how you will solve the delimena but I still believe that we can go forward.

I notice that a one writer mentions as a condition that in order to become a judge a person needs 20 wins.......the odds on that happening for me.....a relatively new member, is next to impossible....I am still trying to get people to comment on my work so 20 wins is out of the question as requirement for me to become a judge.

I would agree with bytethis in that we should perhaps try to get to know one another,,,,,but I find that it is a difficult thing here as people tend to stay where they are comfortable and it is difficult to get accepted.

I have been around cameras now for almost 30 years, I have shot 35 mm format, 2 1/4 format, 645 format, and 4x5 format. I have had my own darkroom, I have been published and I am now moving onto digital.....does that make me a judge....I don't think so....but I think I qualify if I am asked if I have some experience....... then yes.... I can say I have a little.

I like the idea of making this an interesting site with new ideas.....but we have to becoming more accepting of each others and park our egos at the door.......I want to thank Matt for taking the initative to develop this new concept of competiton on this site

I will now get off my soap box.........

Ray

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I definitely like the idea of a themed contest. The POTW contest here being wide open and non-anonymous makes for an unusual and often "strange" system for voting.
Why not make the POTW themed as well?

There appears to me to be an emphasis on landscapes and animal photography here (often exceptional quality, I might add), so different themes may spark some more interest.

I still don't "get" the voting thing though. But I'd be willing to submit an entry for fun regardless of the voting outcome. And if I end up with some extra comments...so much the better!

Dan

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Ray, I think you misunderstood me. I didn't suggest the 20 win criteria for this contest. Just giving an example of how it's done elsewhere. I

"Another site I belong to uses members to judge but that member has had to have had twenty wins in the photo of the day part of their contests. However, that site has their contests broken down into categories."

I think guest judges is the best idea so far.

Sheila

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Varun,

Matt just get confused sometimes

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quote:

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Originally posted by northbeach
Another site I belong to uses members to judge but that member has had to have had twenty wins in the photo of the day part of their contests. However, that site has their contests broken down into categories.

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Thanks all

One thing that has come out of this so far is that everyone who has replied so far is for the challenge contest idea so all we have to do is decide on the structure. Admin will have the final say on this as they are the ones that have to put all the hard work in setting this up.

I like Grahams suggestion of the expert judges panel. This will remove all the problems associated with judging, people voting for themselves etc. Admin seem to like the idea too. The problem is that they need to come up with people to fill the panel who are quailified enough for the job and at the same time are willing to give up some of their free time. Admin (Stephen is looking into this now, he has some people in mind) The judges giving feedback is another excellent point from Graham

If we go along the lines of the winner choosing the next theme and can't enter that challenge then they could then become the guest judge for that challenge. This makes sense to me as it keeps them involved and they did set the challenge and criteria so who better to judge the results. You never know we might even be able to get the occasional celebrity photographer guest judge to get involved. lol

If an expert judging panel can't be formed then the other option is to form it from members at Bytephoto who would maybe take on the role on a rota basis. This could be restrictive on those members though as they won't be able to enter a challenge that they are judging on. How those judges are selected is another issue. We could probably leave that down to admin. As Graham said though, who here would feel qualified to take on that role. I can think of many members here who I would be more than happy to judge my work but the question is would they be happy in doing so and they would have to take the occasional flack that would come with the job.

The members voting for the winner is still an option and still on the table if thats what most members prefer. From the results of this thread we can probably come up with two or three general structure ideas on how this should be setup and then run a poll getting members to vote on their preference. Admin can then set this up as closely as possible to the one with the most votes.

Much of the talk here has been on how a winner is decided which is important and needs to be discussed. I personally want their to be a winner, just so they can receive a little recognition, have someone to congratulate and get the satisfaction that gos with winning a competition at Byte.

However I think the main reason I'm pushing the idea is to try and build on the great community we already have at Byte. To give an alternative to the POTW which doesn't have the scoring and the bickering that sometimes comes with it. To help members focus their ability on a particular theme or topic which sometimes takes them out of their normal comfort zone. To encourage members to give feedback so we can all learn and develope in our photography. Hopefully over time more members will comment and give feedback because they don't feel the pressure of deciding on a score to go with their comment. I feel having a winner choosing the next theme also helps build that community. I can just picture the discussions in the thread after the winner has chosen the next theme.

As I have said before this is not to replace the POTW at all. I personally love the POTW and will still be entering whenever I can.

Anyway enough from me. Sorry if I've wrote a little too much. Still open to suggestions from all of you. So feel free to suggest away. Thanks for all your input so far.

(Sometimes confused) Matt

Last edited by Matt_C on Dec 9th, 2005 at 08:14 AM

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why have a winner at all? why not just have it the same as the the challenge in "steves digicams" where the site moderators asked some members to moderate and reply to all photos put in the weekly challenge and therefore there is no extra work for the site moderators. Those chosen to moderate the challenge set the subject and oversee the whole thing, Not hard to do. No winner and they get some interesting photos, It is not all about winning but just meeting the challenge. Just a thought.

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aladyforty

Last edited by aladyforty on Dec 9th, 2005 at 08:19 AM

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Good point Julie. We don't necessarily need a winner and it's something worth considering and you are right this is for me more about meeting the challenge and getting feedback on your efforts and learning from them rather than winning.

I personally though like a bit of friendly competition, it adds a little fun factor to the equation and I like members getting a little recognition if they manage to get that win. Some people may say I'm being a little shallow here but just expressing the way I feel. I wonder also how many wouldn't enter if it wasn't a contest as such. On the other hand more members might get involved if the competetive side of this was taken away.

If we do go down this road then we need change very little as we already have the assignment section which does pretty much the same thing. I think the reason it hasn't been so successful is the lack of feedback being given to members and using Steves Digicam method of using moderators would help with that.

Just another option to consider. Thanks Julie.

Matt

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"I personally though like a bit of friendly competition, it adds a little fun factor to the equation and I like members getting a little recognition if they manage to get that win."

Ditto.

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-- Varun
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Matt you are probably right regarding a competition makes for more entries, I dont always join in the digicams challenge, on occasions if I enjoy the subject I do.

If we have a competition it is going to be all about who judges and sometimes I think people in various forums get to know the kind of shots people take and vote according to whom they like best or to someone who gives them a better ranking, I have seen this happen in other sites in the past and would not like to see this site go that way. I guess a few things to work out then.

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aladyforty

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I just found this site today and this photo contest/challenge is one of the reasons I registered. This sounds like a great idea and it should be a lot of fun.

I am just an beginner so this will help me stretch those photgraphic muscles so to speak.

I look forward to this site helping me to improve as a photographer.

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Monica

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Matt,

I have read through the messages posted, and do not really have anything critical to add now. I would like to express my appreciation for your effort and time to possibly introduce another interesting item on this site. I think that your communication with the members is important and the cooperation with the admin is essential.

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Matt,

Sorry Ididn't respond to your request for imput right away, I had the flu and then when I got back on my feet I was busy playing catch-up at work

I will submit a longer post in a few, in the meantime take a look at dpchallenge.com. they do some things there like different levels of editing for each challenge etc. that could be adopted.

c-ya

The Big Kahuna

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Thoughts

Matt,

I think this is a great Idea and a great compliment to the BP website.

OK let’s see first, I think that the points or scoring set up can be dialed in as we go to achieve the results that we need. For me I think a first, second and third place concept works well for results.

We can do this anonymously without sacrificing the security of the site, all we have to do is keep our images clean of signatures and all submit them under the same login. Each contest can have it’s own login and password and all entries go into that one gallery then when the challenge ends a new login and pass is created and so on. The winner is selected by the judges and then they announce themselves and have at the ready the original file to prove it. Speaking of original files if it helps, I will volunteer to dissect any suspect images for violations to the agreed upon restrictions. My Photoshop skills are at your disposal.

As far as judges go, the first thing that needs to be addressed is impartiality. Even if we don’t have access to contact them the members have to know who the judges are and that they aren’t connected to anyone in the contest unless, the judges are members themselves and not posting for that specific contest. I have dealt with this on a couple previous occasions and invariably someone starts thinking that a judge is playing favorites and this is only heightened if the judge is unknown.

I think that having the user that picks the particular theme be a guest judge for that contest is a good one. I think that they should also be able to set specific parameters for the entries within reason especially in regards to what level of editing can be done, More on that later. A potential problem with not letting them post is what if you really want to see a particular theme because you really enjoy a style or photo method or whatever? Well if you suggest it you don’t get to post! Then we see the opportunity for cliques or alliances being formed (you propose mine, I’ll propose yours) I personally think that if the moderators have final say on a topic so we don’t get themes like “New jersey barn photos” or “pictures of my Cat Felipe” which would leave some users out we can let the person suggesting a theme post an entry as well, I know there is a good chance that they might win but then again they might not, also they have to get the photo taken within the time allotment so they can’t have a “canned” photo at the ready and if we all can’t beat him or her then good for them. We can limit the amount of times a winner can suggest a theme to one or two in succession and then let it fall to the runner up or moderators.

Another option would be for us to supply the moderators or judges with a list of themes we would like to see and the parameters then let them sort them and choose them either at random or purposefully to keep from having two or more similar themes one right after another. Either way there has to be some sort of approval process from the moderators or judges so that the topic or theme includes more photographers than it excludes. That being said we have to keep in mind that not all members will be able to capture an image for all topics and themes so no whining,

This can be a great tool for us to hone our skills and learn from others, also to see what impartial judges are looking for in our images. With that said I must warn everyone that the adage of beauty being in the eye of the beholder can be a hard pill to swallow. As many of you know I have done more than my share of critiquing and regardless of how vehemently the member was that they were fine with critical analysis of their images, when it came down to giving lower than they expected marks or honest but harsh comments they came down on me hard. I know that many in here will take hard critiques to heart and that is to be expected, you are happy with your work or you wouldn’t post it and someone you don’t know is tearing it down. This is the very hardest part of showing any artwork. You should see some of the rejection letters that photographers of the highest caliber have received. Just don’t get discouraged.. for some this comes easy, others have to work far harder to if you love to do it, it’s not hard at all

Well I will think some more…

The Big Kahuna

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