The Photographer as Artist

**Ed Vatza** · Apr 24th, 2011 07:54 PM

Inspector Gregory (Scotland Yard detective): "Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
Sherlock Holmes: "To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
Gregory: "The dog did nothing in the night-time."
Holmes: "That was the curious incident."
(SILVER BLAZE)

I was a Sherlockian in a previous life, member of the Baker Street Irregulars with the titular investiture of "A Typical American Advertisement". So I got a million of these quotes from the Master.

But why the curious incident of the dog in the night-time? Precisely because the dog did nothing. What does that have to do with the photographer as artist. Maybe nothing. Maybe everything.

In virtually every venue that I have posted my photographic art (and there have been more than a few), I have found that the farther "out there", the more experimental the work is, the less my fellow photographers can find to say about it. And when it is WAY out there (see my "Fire Escapes" iPhone image in this weeks contest entries), my fellow photographers/artists do nothing in the night-time. And that is the curious incident. Because I can't help believe that we all should be pushing the boundaries of our art. And if sometimes our creativity runs amok. So be it.

I should admit here that I did not enter "Fire Escapes" in hopes of "winning" anything. I entered to push the envelope. To experiment. To test the waters... to step WAY out there.

The purpose of this post is not to try to goad anyone into responding to "Fire Escapes". The reason I decided to write this is to hopefully stimulate some discussion of creativity, photography and the photographer as artist.

"You may be right. I may be crazy. But it just may be a lunatic you're looking for."

I also have a penchant for picking up theme lines from popular songs.

Ed

**Kyotie** · Apr 24th, 2011 11:11 PM

Well Ed, no doubt that your a good photographer, so its not about your ability. I like your out of the box thinking, and that is part of the artist in you, I think that photography is an art to be expanded on, and that as an art, there should be no restrictions at all, however having said that I must say that in order to be good art it must please people. I have seen splashes of color placed in the right way as to be pleasing to the eye, but were no more than paint drips and something like it, look like trash. I have seen a good shot, shot so many times that it be comes meaningless or common place, boring. New ideas are always better, they may not start out that way but in time as you build on them they get better. So never stop experimenting. You may come up with a new process. As for your Fire Escapes I don't care for that kind of thing, but then I think Pacoso sucks!!! IMHO I do like your work, overall though!

**Ed Vatza** · Apr 25th, 2011 04:28 AM

Good morning Kyote and thank you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it.

You bring up a good point. Just because something is different doesn't necessarily mean it is good. It is up to the artist who created it and the viewer who views it to decide whether different is good or just different. I think I mentioned that "Fire Escapes" was one of a four-image series that I entitled "Creativity Run Amok". To my eye as the artist, it is the most "outrageous" (if that is the correct word to use) of the four. Do I think it is good? Yes. But I also feel more creative tension with this image than any of the other three images in the series. That is why I chose this one to post.

Actually my thoughts expressed in my original post run much broader than just this one iPhone image. Last week, one of he images I posted was an infrared image. I often see the same thing happening with IR images, for example. I think people are uncomfortable seeing that much white - white willows, white grass, etc. By the way, the IR image also had no comments here and precious few in the other place I posted it. I guess my question is why folks are uncomfortable commenting on non-traditional photographic art?

Actually, I did a blog post on this subject and the "Creativity Run Amok" series with before and after images. You can see it at Blog « Ed Vatza Photography

Again thanks for taking the time to respond. And I hope to hear from others. Maybe we can also start firing up some activity on these forums here on BytePhoto.

Ed

**Kyotie** · Apr 25th, 2011 10:59 PM

I agree with you, and we should expand our horizons, There are a lot of people that don't like HDR, I do, if done well as with anything, I do a lot of layering and people don't like that either, but I do and will continue to do both. If abstract is what you like, if you do it well, others will like your work. I don't can for abstract for the most part but I do appreciate good work, and may find some exceptions, as for me I won't do much of it. Now what I call abstract is pretty out there shapes without a theme. But I do like fantasy. But don't hold that against me, there is some music I don't like, nothing against the artist, just the music.

**Ed Vatza** · Apr 26th, 2011 04:40 AM

My basic basic belief is that we need to experience new and different things even if our first impression is "I don't like it!". I think we end up salting all those experiences away and they ultimately help shape the artist that we are now and become in the future. And you just never know when something clicks and you end up using something that you saw elsewhere. Maybe not in exactly the same way but it helps us shape the sphere of what is possible in our art.

Here's an example of what I am talking about. Over the years, I have seen many examples of high key photography. Never really liked it. The same went for low key. Matter of fact, I do a lot of reading to supplement my experiences in the field and I just finished a book on Black & White Photography that had a section on high key and low key photo processing. Not for me. Then yesterday I found myself working on a flower image - a simple macro shot of a yellow violet beginning to bud out. Nothing I did in processing that image satisfied me. I had played with the image, off and on, for nearly a week. (I will add here that I do precious little black and white flower photography because I feel color is an integral part of the experience of the flower.) So almost in an act of resignation, I did a black and white conversion and suddenly something sparked. I started to see on the screen a hint of what I was seeing in my head. I started working with the black and white image and by now you probably guessed where I ended up... a low-key, black and white, yellow violet. I love the image. That is first and foremost. And I have gotten some positive feedback from others but that is secondary.

So my point is - experience everything. You never know what you are going to use somewhere down the road.

Regards,

Ed

**Kyotie** · Apr 26th, 2011 07:02 PM

Well to tell you the truth, Ed, I am so new at this that anything I do is experimental. Post processing is new to me this last year, my equipment is about 1 1/2 years old. I have played with photography most of my life but nothing serious.

**Kyotie** · Jun 16th, 2011 10:45 PM

I have read some stuff that has me thinking, a photo has a narrow interpretation, but photo illustrations are not the same thing, they are a creation away from what camera sees. So that a back drop in a photo is still a photo but a post-processed background or layered back ground is an photo illustration.
Filters on the camera are photos and filters in the post-process are illustration, it's going to get pretty hard to tell the difference. I might have to start to do two difference versions of the same photo. I like photo illustration, but that don't always fly with everyone!

**51Goldie** · Jun 18th, 2011 06:44 AM

Slightly off track - but not much: please can someone explain how I can combine an element from one photo with a totally different photo? I have photoshop elements. Basically it's a suggestion from Kyotie that it would look cool to combine a hot air balloon with a landscape shot - great stuff but HOW????
Please explain - thanks.

**TcJohnson** · Jun 18th, 2011 10:06 AM

Ed, I think if people would stop a review the work for several minutes, even walk away from, then return gathering there thoughts. They would find they have a lot to say about an artists interpretation of a image/art.
They may even have an idea or two that they could try for there own work again feeding the process of discovery and learning. And although i do not always care for someones interpretation of something does not mean i do not pick up or learn something from it if the story is there, visual or written.
This is just my way of doing things, but i try to see what i think the artist see's as well as what i think i see. Then write a response hoping for feedback. Most people seem to be afraid of expressing an opinion to an artist or group for fear of being scolded or sounding dumb Everyone wants others to think they new that. We automatically feel threatened or go on the defensive. Natural reaction imho. But not what others are trying to put across. Also i think that there a lot of traditionalists out there with a narrow pov as Jon stated.
I believe you are right in, ("So my point is - experience everything. You never know what you are going to use somewhere down the road.") And just as important. Do Not Get Discouraged If the horse bucks you off pick yourself up brush yourself off and try again. Lets not be afraid to explore the possibilities by Editing, Posting, Writing, and Reading. Put it out there so that others can come to there own conclusions.
There are times i find myself walking away from a shoot and can not find one image i like. But if i walk away for a day or week then come back to it. I find it was mental block and suddenly there's a dozen that work. Maybe not as i first thought but wind up being better than my original vision.

**Kyotie** · Jun 18th, 2011 10:32 PM

Goldie: I don't have elements I use Photoshop 3 and Topaz remask, I can explain how I do it those programs if you want.
But if you can bring up two photos, and have an erase tool and a layer mode you can erase what all but the balloon and layer it that way.

**51Goldie** · Jun 20th, 2011 04:16 PM

Please explain using photoshop as I have access to that (slowly, without assuming that I know anything please!). Thank you so much for taking the trouble to teach - much appreciated - Sue

**RTaylor** · Jun 20th, 2011 06:54 PM

If you'd like, we can create a special thread in a forum that I think we already have under inspirational instructions

If you want to include screen shots, let me know and I can set it all up for you

**Kyotie** · Jun 21st, 2011 09:23 AM

Goldie: I can do a step by step for you the way I do it, if someone else has a better way they can tell us.
Ruth/Goldie: I will go to "inspirational instructions forum" and start there.
I can't find that forum, I moved the thread to "Imaging Software-Editing-Printing" "Photo Editing Tips"
See you there!

**RTaylor** · Jun 21st, 2011 09:52 AM

ok, that may be a good place for it. Let me go check.
PS: I sent you a pm a couple mins ago

PS: you can access the instruction articles from the front left menu on the front page. It may be set that members can't start a forum post, but they can reply. Its explained in the message I sent you

http://www.bytephoto.com/content.php...hy-instruction