Bumping

[northbeach]

Someone remarked on "bumping" regarding a photograph in the contest.' I guess there had been no comments so the person simply made one and naturally their image went to the front page.

I suspect many of us may be guilty "bumping" our images...perhaps not quite so obviously but by simply posting a thank you to every single comment. Sometimes half the "comments" are not comments but thank you for the comment.

I wonder what would happen if we didn't do the thank you responses for a week? Just let the image ride. I think it might be fairer in the long run. Bumping, even by simply saying thank you, not only puts the image back to the front page but when a lot of people are doing it it's also moving quite a few new images rapidly off the front page before they've had much of a chance to elicit comment.

Or maybe simply wait until there are a few comments and thank do a group thank you.?

Just a thought to see if we can't level the playing field a bit. I think it's tough of newcomers.

Sheila.
"The negative is the score...the print is the performance." Ansel Adams.

[~Rick~]

I wait till there are a few replies and comments
~RicK~

[skeuos]

Sheila,
This is a very pertinent issue. I've been thinking about this for a couple days. 2 thoughts -

1. I agree most of us are guilty to some measure of bumping, myself included.

2. I'm not a huge fan of letting the images ride excessively - but not because I want to be able to bump my own images. I really like seeing responses from the photographers here, and like responding to comments on my shots because it usually brings up more information about the composition, execution, and processing of a shot. These are details that are frequently absent from the information bar for the shot, but are usually quite readily provided by most people here. Case in point, last week, autumnsky was kind enough to detail for me the reasons behind the slanted perspective of his still life composition.

I also find a measure of satisfaction in the validation or refutation of suggestions I do make to a shot - from either the person who took the shot, or from someone else viewing it. I find myself checking shots I've commented on nearly as frequently as my own or others that I find particularly interesting. As I'm still in the midst of a very steep learning curve, I find feedback to my critiques of other shots to be quite helpful as it allows perspective into the thought processes of the talented photographers here at Byte. This is the only site I've found with that atmosphere, and I really enjoy it.

In the end, I think the best resolution is as both you and Rick suggest - waiting for a few comments, then going for a single, larger "thank you" with detailed responses to individual questions/suggestions/comments as seen fit.

steve

[Buddy4344]

The bumping drives me crazy also. I guess I am a bit of a data nut, but I often look at the ratio of original comments to self replies and if it is near 1 to 1, I start discounting the artist. Another interesting stat is ratio of views to outside comments. When it is greater than 10:1 on my shots - I know I haven't evoked enough emotion in viewers. On other folks shots, when I see this stat I sometimes wonder te percentage of self views and does this reflect on the confidence of the artist?

BTW, I always try to make at least 6 comments on photos by others before I will reply on my on. This is how I feel I "earn the right" to move my shot with a comment. After all, this is suppose to be a community. I feel this rule of thumb forces me to give back to the community.

I also have a "self rule" that I can only post photos I have shot within the last month. This pushes me to be better and minimizes the site from constantly seeing re-posts of past greatest hits shots. But that's another topic.

[Punwit]

While I agree with Buddy on his observations regarding the correlation between # of views, comments and replies to comments I think ultimately that the only thing accomplished by those resorting to self engineered boosts of views and comments is a degradation of community image. Supposedly these things don't influence the selection of the weekly finalists so other than self aggrandizment what do they or the community think they're gaining. It is a bit irritating but surely most of us are able to seperate the wheat from the chaff and the onus falls on us to make newcomers feel welcome and to comment on those images that we feel are deserving. I'm adding here that I didn't mean to imply that any image is not deserving of comment only that it is assumed that the more appreciated images usually should garner more activity.

Darren

[Sambo]

Just a quick thought before I get some shut eye before flying back to the good 'ole USA...

I noticed that when one clicks on the "Photo Contest" link, the default is to use a "Most Active" criteria. Of course, that takes you to the "front page" that everyone loves to be on the most (myself included). Perhaps if the admin could make the default show entries on the front page to be displayed randomly from that week's entries. One could still chose to see the "most active" by clicking on the pull down menu on the right.

Any other ideas???

Sam

[KHedquist]

I have to agree with what everyone is saying. Unfortunately the guilty ones may not be in tune with our concerns.

That said, I must confess my guilt as well. I too admit there is gratification in seeing our shots on the front page. Especially when being new to the site. My confidence in my photos has grown to the point that I don't need to respond individually to each comment so it is bumped. I now try to comment on shots that I haven't seen, before I respond to my shots. Kind of like what Buddy is doing.

I do like go to the back page and look to see if there is something stuck there that needs viewing, then I back to the front page. Often, very good shots get abandoned there.

Oh well, my two cents.

Kevin

[pippafox]

Sorry to digress from the specifics of bumping but I think it falls into the general area.

So interesting to read different people’‚’‚…‚’‚…¾‚s behaviour patterns. I don’‚’‚…‚’‚…¾‚t think its such a bad thing to bump ones own image occasionally, so long as its not habitual.. Sometimes very good shots get neglected and it’‚’‚…‚’‚…¾‚s a way of bringing it to the fore, simple as that.

the suggestion: ’‚’‚…‚’‚¦…“In the end, I think the best resolution is as both you (Sheila) and Rick suggest - waiting for a few comments, then going for a single, larger "thank you" with detailed responses to individual questions/suggestions/comments as seen fit’‚’‚…‚’‚‚� - I’‚’‚…‚’‚…¾‚m happy with that.

Ratio on views to comments means nothing to me - I don’‚’‚…‚’‚…¾‚t think it’‚’‚…‚’‚…¾‚s a good benchmark - I often see images that hold no appeal to my eye yet have a huge number of views and comments - as well as it being down to personal taste, I feel sometimes the ’‚’‚…‚’‚¹¦‚“popularity contest’‚’‚…‚’‚…¾‚ is at play when that happens.

Also, a lot of exceptionally good shots (to my eye) have far too few comments. The idea that an individual who doesn’‚’‚…‚’‚…¾‚t comment on others images doesn’‚’‚…‚’‚…¾‚t deserve comments in return seems crazy to me. Surely the criteria is to comment on the MERIT OF THE IMAGE and not the character of the poster. There could be a myriad of reasons that hinder people from commenting on others shots: lack of time, language barriers, shyness, lack of confidence not being able to articulate, ,illiteracy, dyslexia (common to the artistic brain), being just a few.

just thoughts..
pippa

[Shaggydoo]

I agree with most of what has been said here but to my mind, this is an online community which means all should participate to the best of their capacity. If one is physically and mentally capable of viewing and posting and typing here, a few well-placed and helpful comments are par for the course (in my mind). I don't really understand how some members can honestly claim that they don't have time - if you have time to take a photo (which can, as we know, take a lot of time!) and post to the site, certainly you have time to participate by offering help and applause to others' work. If not, why be a member? This is a give and take kind of community, not just a private web-page to market one's own talent.

Just my 2 cents.

[Punwit]

Pippa,

While I agree with a good deal of what you posted I've got to say that certain practices (lots of bumping, inordinate # of views) to list the main ones begin to make me distrustful of the poster. I don't expect everyone to have the same level of expertise or fluency but I do expect some reciprocity for the amount of time I invest. Even a comment that details how the photo makes the viewer feel is more useful than no comment. I also find comments that are nothing but "Nice shot, I like it" to be uninformative for me as a photographer looking to hone my skills.

I'm not averse to commenting on an image from a poster that hasn't commented on any of my images but I find that if I comment and receive no recognition for that (even a simple "thank you") I'm less likely to comment for them again. As Andrew pointed out this is a community and as such a certain amount of courtesy seems onl proper. In any other social situation I can't imagine that someone would remain silent after you had either paid them a complement or invested your time to help them. Sorry for the mini-rant but those that only take or take and return only the barest of effort aren't going inspire me to continue to help them.

As I said in my first post I think that those that resort to this type of behaviour risk losing standing in the community resulting in fewer informative and helpful input and for me that is a fitting result.

Darren

[pippafox]

sorry Darren, but i dont entirely agree with you. no offence, just me being clumsy with words. but i see it as too judgemental, expecting everyone on this international site to conform to the outlook and expectations of what is considered ettiquette as judged by north american society.

this is an international site - people may want to post here who have no command of the english language at all - so thats why i said merit of image is key for me.

not only is it international but all sorts of people can post here, not just the polite ones who say their please and thankyous. so long as no-one is downright rude or posts inappropriate images, i would assume is the criteria.

I was trying to convey that perhaps we should keep an open mind as there are many reasons why not everyone conforms to what ’‚’‚…‚’‚¹¦‚“you’‚’‚…‚’‚…¾‚ consider as acceptable: "language barriers, shyness, lack of confidence not being able to articulate, illiteracy, dyslexia (common to the artistic brain), being just a few’‚’‚…‚’‚‚� - what of such individuals? what of those in society with mental health issues AND a talent for photography who do not necessarily conform to your norms, yet might want to post to byte - autistic yet talented and incapable of communication as we gauge it - should they be given a wide berth?

do we only give unless we get something back?
dont wish to be combative but i do think how we perceive things needs to be challenged now and again.
pippa

[Punwit]

Pippa,

No offense taken as I'm quite comfortable with you holding forth on your position. As far as the international site aspect I have no problem using bablefish (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) to translate either a reply to me or to translate a comment for someone I know uses another language. I've done this several times with Ricchlino. I'm quite comfortable using that utility to translate even a simple "thanks for your time" reply to a comment I've left. I'm also quite willing to extend folks a second and even third chance, but my tolerance isn't limitless and I think that courtesy should transcend any social boundaries. I'd even opine that courtesy is even more crucial in this (internet) environment since one has no visual clues to provide context. I don't consider myself judgemental but I also am not willing to invest my time for someone that doesn't take the time to acknowledge that investment. If folks can figure out how to upload and title their images I'm fairly certain that they can at least acknowledge the folks that reply to that posting. As always, Pippa, it is a pleasure to converse with you.

Darren

[pippafox]

no worries either Darren, we all have different ways of thinking ;-)
pippa