Changing shots mid-stream

[northbeach]

I've posted about this before and I thought we had all ended up on the same page, but apparently not.

I posted comment to wide shot of a tiger that Joe had put up. The next time I looked that shot had disappeared but in the same place with the old comments intact was a new shot...a head shot of the beast. Correct me if I'm wrong Joe but you are asking for comparative opinions. You seem to be to be fishing not entering a contest.

My question is this. If a person wishes to put up a different image - in this case totally different - should they repost brand new? From scratch. Even if we simply adjust a shot should we post brand new?

It seems to me to defeat the purpose of a) the contest and b) the learning process. If the original image remains and the original comments remain surely anyone looking can learn from what is being said...can look and say "oh I see" or "I don't agree, I would...." etc.,

Some of you know there have been issues between Joe and myself in the past and I think we've both recently made a sincere effort to pass the peace pipe, I think that speaks well of both of us. So I want to be clear this is not personal, this is not about Joe....it's about how we go about this Contest.

Sheila.

[JoeMc]

Sheila,
You singled me out 6 times in that one post....Great job!!!! I was/am unaware that you are the adminastrator.
Please, next time you Bash me, could you please do it in a PM so others do not have to experience your rath

I tried to keep the peace, I do not like friction. Your choice

I think your a talented lady! And I have seen you change shots mid week....But please let me be!!

I remain,
Joe

PS I am sorry to the valued members that had to experience this ....again

[northbeach]

Joe, I'm sincerely sorry you've chosen to take this as an attack on you...it is not and was never intended to be that. Of course I mentioned your name, I was talking to you. It was your tiger shots that persuaded me to bring this up.

I'm sorry I did. I'm not the one with the wrath here Joe.

Sheila

[Sambo]

Hey Joe Mac, love your website!

Sam

[JoeMc]

Sam, When I seen someone posted to this thread, my heart sunk....

Thank you!!! You are a gentleman! You made me smile :-)

Cheers,
Joe

[pippafox]

i'd be interested to know what the guidlines are on the issues Sheila has raised.
it is a contest with presumably an ethos and Sheila's raised interesting points on a fuzzy area which needs to be clarified.
dont like the veiled intimidation not to post to this.
pippa

[Buddy4344]

Just my 2 cents, but number of views and comments don't pick the final 6, so it doesn't effect the contest.

What is effected is the ability for folks to follow attached comments and learn from the shots. The more we give specific and detailed feedback, the more this is a concern.

IF one visits the site on a daily basis, this probably is a non-event, but if one tunes in only once a week, confusion could exist.

Joe also makes a good point that many questions and comments could and should be handled by PM. I get/give these a few times a week.

[pippafox]

thing is Buddy, while a pm could suffice in many instances i dont see that it necessarily does here. a single reason for this to be out in the open is the history between Joe and Sheila and therefore feel open debate would be much healthier in this instance.
what do we ALL feel about the issue Sheila raised, I for one, am really keen to find out. if we participate (objectively, no mudslinging) in open discussion, maybe admin could get a beter idea and guage from our opinions as to whether the guidelines should be clarified surrounding this issue - it would also make it a more democratic process if admin can make decisions based on our opinions.

do we care? can we discuss issues without being rude, confrontational, or fear of being boycotted.

i personally am in favour of open discussion and am keen to hear others viewpoints - our ideas change and we learn from different opinions. hopefully we can stike a happy medium.

how do we feel about posting again and again in a given week.
any other points relevant to this discussion would open it up more.

personally i think it goes against the grain to keep reposting. fair enough, withdraw an entry if not happy with it but should we be replacing image after image - for what purpose? I'm happy to opinion on two images from an individual each week and i look forward to seeing the outcome at the end of the week - but keeping up with lots of different submissions from a lot of people could get tedious. (in Joes case, his images are excellent, all worthy of remark - a simple calculation would be that he as an individual could accrue at least 100 comments in a given week - times that from lots of us and it could become overwhelming. we all like feedback, but I see it could be construed as unethical and not entering into the spirit of the competition.

Buddy, as to your point about following comments that are no longer relevant - I am keen to know a reason to retain them, surely its easier just to post anew. however, I am keen to learn any reason to do so.

while the number and views don't pick the final six, what is the point of entering into a competition if you don't intend to stick the course (other than bottling out) - personally, I see it as piggybacking off the competition just to collect comments in which case for me it becomes a question of ethics.

pippa

[JoeMc]

As I have mentioned in the past, I was here for teaching learning and Pleasure

This is not pleasurable anymore. and I do not have the energy for this.

I have withdrawn from the contest

Good luck to my supporters! Most of you know how to contact me, and I am sure we will run into one another on other sites.

Cheers, Joe

[pippafox]

Joe - sorry to read your comment - that is precisely what we need to avoid - could you not find it within you to participate here - lets hear your views -
why should that be unpleasurable?
lets try to find common ground.
pippa

[JoeMc]

Mr Pippa,
This... my friend is not pleasurable!!

I read the rules from start to finish, frontwards and backward!!

I did not break any rules....If I want to "change shots mid stream 400 times.....My choice! ..Now you... as a person that comments on others work can decide to stop commenting on my work because you do not like me changing it...... That my friend is your only course of Action!!

OK....now its clear that I did not break a single rule!! The only other reason to trash someone in a public forum would be called "grand standing" That I will not tolorate.

Shiela is a member........nothing more....she does not have the right to use the forum and grand stand against someone because she does not like the way thay he has choose to utilize the contest... ...It simply is NOT her choice.... Nor is it allowed in the "rules" of the site.

This is a direct quote from the rules "We are all here to share and learn, so keep this in mind before adding your comments/critiques."

I remain,
Joe McBroom

PS...thanks for all the PM's

[laser]

As a newbie perhaps I could mention what I have noticed.

i} I seldom post because of the nature of some of the comments given.

ii) Some people can say whatever they want and there does not appear to be any checks and balances. Notwithstanding, this is a free site

iii) The rules are being followed by most but there does appear to be others who have disregard of fellow photographers and no consequences

iv) It is a free site and if the rules are generally followed, why is it necessary to interject personal opinions of them. In the scheme of life, what does it matter?

v) And finally, the art of photography should be enjoyed and shared, however, at the moment it appears to be a power thing. Like I said before, this is a free site and I am thankful for that, my only concern is the disregard for others that is being displayed.

Thanks for allowing me to share this opinion.

[JoeMc]

Well said Laser!!!!!!!!!!

[northbeach]

DaronM,

Where did this vitriol come from? I have rarely posted to your images and when I have it has been to comment favorably on some things and to offer what I thought be helpful. You even actually thanked me for one suggestion. I may have posted to perhaps two or three of your images most of which usually produced only one or two comments.

So where do you get off writing this????

You don't post because of me????

Start posting again - because I am done here.

[skeuos]

I've been trying to maintain a very swiss stance on this (figured I'd use what could arguably be labeled as my "catch phrase") - agressively neutral, but I find I can no longer avoid commenting, and instead find myself picking up Pippa's standard. What I say here I mean not as lecture, but as balanced thoughts on the issue at hand.

That this thread has gotten to the point that two of the most talented photographers on the site are threatening complete pull-outs disturbs me greatly. I've had a very steep learning curve in these past 2 months, and I owe much of it to both of you, Sheila and Joe. Your absence would be a major loss from the site. Allow me to specifically ask you both to stay. Perhaps if would be best if you both once again maintain a respectful distance and appreciation of each other, much the way my cat and I do for each other (he was a stray; he has issues with guys). I used to spend significant time on "discussion" forums for different topics; if I've learned one thing on the internet, it's that you must remember that emotions are rarely maintained in a post, and it's best to assume most statements are made in the most positive, least vindictive light.

With that in mind, DaronM - I fail to see how your statement was intended to further the discussion. Please take the opportunity to enlighten the rest of us.

I am here at Byte because I can get here what you generally can't get on other photo sites - constructive and helpful critiques beyond just "nice shot." There are other reasons as well, and Byte is the best mix of everything I was looking for when I found it. A loss of your (plural) talents from the site would hurt that.

The topic in the OP needs to be addressed, but at this point, I feel that would be better done at a later date in a different thread or by an evenhanded, all-encompassing rule/clarification by the administration.

Respectfully,
steve