Fairness in Photo Contest.

[northbeach]

Let me begin this by saying I understand that people want to learn and welcome comments that teach. Helping each other is important. There actually is a forum specifically for that in Photo Sharing called "photo critiques". Very good work posted there that's all but ignored.

What's bothering me are the increasing number of contestants who get a comment - accept the advice, edit and ask "is this better?" Sometimes a helpful commentator will work on the image and then offer up a link for viewing at their site. The contestant edits to that. Often a photograph is changed more than once as fresh advice comes in.

It's my belief that if you enter a contest you can take notice of people's helpful comments, learn from them, and apply them to future work. The original work should be left intact for us all to see and comment on in it's original form. If I rate an image I'd prefer the picture I rated to remain the same, otherwise my rating is on something that's no longer there. It's hard enough trying to look at as much work as one can and comment without having t o look for the word "edit" and go back again to see if your rating would still be the same. I don't want to be seen to have put a 7 on what is now a 9. Or vice-versa.

But my greatest concern is; how is this all fair to the contestant who posts and doesn't get the benefit of this advice and the chance to edit and improve their work during the contest? They're out of luck.

This editing is happening all the time now and it's entry by committee.

[Aladyforty]

I understand where you are coming from. However I have gone back and looked at a photo that has not been edited and changed my score because Ive had more time to really look at it better than the first time. I dont know how many people have done this, I have been guilty of editing a shot twice, the first time was the first week I was a menber and I did ask if there was a problem with doing so and no feedback came saying it was against the rules, at the time it was just a crop change and hardley effected the photo at all. If the moderators suggest this is not to be done I would not do so. I could do a lot to both the photos I have in the competition this week. The horse at the beach shot needs a lot of editing on the blown highlights and the purple fringing, I have however left it as is. My other photo, I submitted in a rush before going to work and have since edited it very slightly to remove blur. If the moderators see this as unfair thats fine with me. I wish some agreement could be come to on this subject, maybe it could be stated in the competition guidelines and I am willing to abide by them no problem at all

[BytePhoto]

Hi,

This does seem to bother me too as a Photo Contest is a Photo Contest. Would this be allowed if we sent in our photo prints to a contest, no I don't think so, do you ?
If members do wish to have their photos critiqued and allowed to change them to improve them why not use the Photo Critiques section. I know it's not used to much but if we disallow changes in photos in the contest maybe it will be used more often.

Personally I think the rules need changed to prevent this happening

What do you think ?

Originally posted by RVB Pix
Hi

This does seem to bother me too as a Photo Contest is a Photo Contest. Would this be allowed if we sent in our photo prints to a contest, no I don't think so, do you ?
If members do wish to have their photos critiqued and allowed to change them to improve them why not use the Photo Critiques section.

Good morning......
It does bother me to see something that I have commented on that has been changed. I don't think many people here can say they are not guilty of that, it was done last week by a couple of people.........notwithstanding I think that as long as it is not stopped by either rules......or the site software, then it will continue. Perhaps entries can be entered like you do when you vote.......1 per person., in this case two entries. It woould also stop multiple entries that occurs on occasion.

Personally I would be for the stopping of editing photos once they are entered.

Ray

[northbeach]

Julie, I've done it too, usually to straighten an horizon. However, human nature being what it is I bet if I didn'thave the option of changing once I'd posted I'd be more careful about checking my entrybefore I posted it.

There's another piece to this too - as Julie (ladyforty said) she hasn't changed her entry this week and she feels it needs a lot of work. This too is learning for the rest of us. We can see her image, we can read the comments and we can see what needs to be changed. If she had fixed this right away it would no longer be there as an example.

Stephen, thanks for your response, I hope we get a good dialog going about this.

My personal hope is that things get changed for the better......I really hope this thread doesn't turn into another long ***** session......there is so much we can do creativily than waste our time complaining.............

I would encourage everyone answer the question posed by Stephen with a simple answer......yes or no to the change

I'll get off my soapbox now........

Ray

[Marysa]

Yes, please change the rules

It is more helpful if the original photo remains the same and a link is given to take one to the edit which is kept in the posters own gallery, which shows any changes made.
Cheers,
Mary

[BytePhoto]

Mary,
Thanks for your interest on the subject.
I'm thinking about creating a new section in the critiques category for edited images, so we can post changed images there and continue to give advice on the updated photo.
What do you think ?

[northbeach]

Stephen, that seems to me to be a very fair way and actually the most helpful to everyone who wants to learn.

[Marysa]

A terrific solution Stephen - it will be a great learning tool.
Well done and thank you for your time.
Mary

[autumnsky]

There have been times when I have had a suggestion for edit and it is best shown through my posting of the revision. I think the edit section would be great for posting revisions by the owner of the image as well as members.

[BytePhoto]

Hi,
I've added the category to the Photo Critiques section Edited Photos for posting updated images.

Leo,
This would be OK as long as the owner of the photo allows it.

[autumnsky]

Originally posted by RVB Pix

Leo,
This would be OK as long as the owner of the photo allows it.

Then I might suggest that an asterisks be placed by images where the owner encourages edits. Or better yet, a flag can be easily selected for images that are modifiable. This has been implemented successfully at ephotozine. http://www.ephotozine.com/gallery/modgallery.cfm

[BytePhoto]

Good idea Leo.
I've added this option where members can choose if they wish to have the photo edited or not.

[Tony Ward]

Great discussion! Great Move! Maybe it will also put more life into the Critique section. A thought, could a link be the 'Edited Area" from the Contest Comments so that a direct view of the changes would be available? Much progress has been made. One has to remember that the camel is the result of design by committee!

Tony