Popularity does count

[northbeach]

When I checked to see the finalists this morning I was surprised not to see "Wow" amongst them, last time I looked it was a 10 and a wonderful image. Perhaps the photographer withdrew it at the last moment, know some people do that. However, I decided to take another look at the rules. It appears final selection is based on rating and amount and content of comments.
Wow" rated high, but received few comments. This week there are at least two finalists who were not rated a 10. Certain posters are well known and well liked and consistently vote high. These people elicit many, many comments even if the rating isn't always a ten. No wonder diversity has so little chance here. Sometimes I don't rate a photograph because I hestitate to rate too low and risk hurting someones feelings. One of the criteria is "visual impact". Many of the landscapes do not have that, good in technical ways but bland (in my opinion) and week after week almost the same. This is a popularity contest after all.

[Matt_C]

I presume one of the finalist pictures you are talking about is mine as I think it has the lowest score out of the six. All I can say is please feel free to rate my images with whatever you feel they deserve and that gos for any other members reading this as well. I have two landscape shots in this weeks POTW and I would welcome any feedback you care to give. If you feel they are bland and lacking impact then please say so and I will welcome your honesty.

As regards to scoring I can only speak for myself. I have been guilty in the past of giving too many high scores. Of late I have changed that and am much stricter with my scoring and give out much fewer 10 scores. This is mainly due to the standards in the POTW getting better and better each week and I feel perhaps the standards we rate by needs to change accordingly. Otherwise at the end of each week we will end up with twenty or so photos all averaging a 10 score making it almost impossible for the judges to choose their final six. This is just my opinion and I have adjusted how I score accordingly.

As far has diversity having little chance on this site, I completley disagree. If it's a great picture then no matter what the subject matter, macro, abstract, landscape, wildlife or any other then I think it has just as much chance of winning as any other shot and I do feel this has been proven in the past. A contest by category is in my view the way forward in the future but on the whole I don't think the POTW does too bad at the moment. I don't always agree with the winner but I've never seen a winning picture that wasn't worthy of winning.

I'll stop there but it would be interesting to see what others think about this. I do respect your opinion though and always welcome your comments on my pictures so please feel free to rate them accordingly.

Matt

[RTaylor]

NB,
I know which picture you are talking about. From what I remember, it only had 4 comments. I'm sure the Byte admin could could explain this better, but its not just ALL 10's that make it to the top 6. There are some that I see only have 1-2 10's and if you sort the list by Most Popular, they end up coming in the top 6 in the listed view.

Do you think its really fair that someone only having 2 10's beats out someone having maybe 13 10's and only 1 9 giving an average?
The comments count as well from what I have heard.

I really take offense to your continued comments I have seen here and throughout comments I see you make on others work throughout the past months about landscape photographers here at Byte. That's what some of us specialize in because its our passion, just like some here are extremely good at bird and wildlife photography.

Just my opinon but I'm sure others will agree with me.

[northbeach]

Matt, thanks for your reply. Actually, I don't find your work bland at all...you choose to shoot in different lights and in varied situations and from different perspectives. The angles on your work are often interesting, for instance I loved having those cows in the f.g. last week.

We'll have to agree to disagree about diversity...I think diversity is hampered by lack of comment if that lack of comment causes a photograph rated 10 not to make it to to the final. And I'm afraid I do believe that there are "fan clubs" that rate each other highly week after week after week.

There's a very high standard in the POTW and I agree that a) rating needs to be tougher and b) it needs to move to categories.

Sheila.

[northbeach]

Ruth, yes, comments do count, that's what I said in my initial post here "final selection is based on rating and amount and content of comments." It's the amount of comments being used as criteria and the inbalance that causes that I take issue with. I feel there is no question some photographers have large fan clubs and their photographs will and do elicit more comment.

I too shoot landscapes and I also post them. I have nothing against landscapes as such...my favorite photographer is Ansel Adams. But, in my opinion, some landscapes have a sameness to them week after week. It's like eating too many chocolates, after a while they don't have the same appeal for me. Read my post again, please. I'm not condemning all landscapes but I stand by my comment that they do not all have visal impact and some are bland. Are you suggesting all landscapes are created equally?

As you're allowed to have your passion for landscape photography so am I allowed not to share that passion for all of them.

I comment in these forums very, very rarely not "constantly" as you say. I don't actually comment that much in the POTW site, but when I do you hear what I believe. Honest comment has a value, Ruth.

[chuckinsoc]

I'm not that concerned about which pics make the final six or come out the winner. There are a lot of great photos and I'm guessing it's difficult to pick the six best or one best.

I have noticed, though, that many of what I believe to be above average photos go the whole week with no comment or rating at all.

Why does that happen?

Chuck

[northbeach]

Chuck, I think that people just don't take the trouble to a) browse through all of the photographs or b) bother to rate photographs of people whose work they're not familiar with.

There are a lot of photographs posted in a given week and often of a very high standard. I think it might be more fair if we had categories of images...."landscape" "portrait" etc.,

Lots of good work gets posted here.

[TNEmily]

I've been a member for probably a month, so these comments are from a relative newbie. And of course please bear in mind that I think this sight is wonderful - I'm quite addicted to it and appreciate the free service that our administrators provide. This is almost like a free online photography class and I've learned a lot already.

I try to rate photos as I see fair, but I do lack confidence in my critique due to my amateur/newbie status and that might cause me to rate some a lot higher because I might not catch faults that others do. I don't play favorites, partially because I don't really know anyone and also I like to think that's just the way I am. I don't know that anyone truly plays favorites, but I am sure people are going to be a lot more likely to comment on a friend's photo or that of someone who consistently submits great work.

I like your idea of having categories. However, we DO have categories. They're in the critique section that no one uses for critique! I'm here to learn, and in my first two weeks uploaded a lot of photos to the critique section. However, I soon discovered that I have a better chance of getting critique in the POTW section than in critique, so I limit myself to that section now. I think this holds a lot of amateur photos back.

While I don't have a lot of free time during the day/evening, I still try to make time to cruise through the site and critique a few photos to the best of my ability. Plus, if I get comments from someone (and I have gotten very insightful critique from those that do comment), I try to return the favor by taking a trip to their gallery and commenting on an interesting photo or two there. I think this whole community would be better if everyone tried to follow this "Golden Rule of Photo Critique".

[melbaby]

I have to agree with Emily for bringing up the point of repaying someone who took the time to comment your own picture. We all know how rather exciting it is to get one and often quite good information. It is common courtesy to return the gesture, and I am sure it would snowball if more people did that.

I think I have been trying to do that all along, and if I haven't from this point I will make a better effort!

Lots of pics on the last page get overlooked. Sometimes I start there, and bring out ones with no comments.

Melodie

[Nick1946]

I'm fairly new to this site, too. I've posted threads asking about the lack of critiques, etc. and have gotten replies about how busy people are and only look at the "wow" photos, etc. BS- if you are looking at the photo, how long does it take to add a comment, not necessarily a rating. I have stopped submitting in the POTW just because of this, I have submitted into the critique area and have several views on all of the photos, but no comments- i guess folks are way too busy to type a few words-

[TNEmily]

I understand your frustration; I'm eager to learn too. However, speaking from personal experience I know that I don't comment unless I can offer something constructive or insightful. I think that's only fair to you as the photographer. Are you commenting on other's photos? I would suggest doing that - just offering honest and constructive criticism, or even a "hey, wish I could do that, could you look at this photo of mine and critique please".

And enter POTW - that's where you'll get the most comments since that's what everyone pays the most attention to.

Good luck.