C 4000 refurbs on Ebay...question

[Jim Walczak]

Greetings All!
Just a quicky question here...I'm in the market for a new digital camera...been pricing, compairing features etc.. I'm looking for a decent all around digital that (hopefully) I will also be able to use for some astrophotography endevours as well (pictures through a telescope). If money weren't an issue, I'd be going for a Canon digital SLR (like a Rebel or a D10) as all my 35mm equipment is Canon. Unfortunatly I have $200 -max- to blow on a new camera here, so I need to comprimise in the best way that I can (yea...I know...thats asking -a lot-).

Last night I saw a number of Olympus C 4000's on Ebay. They were "Class C" refurbs which I know is basically cosmetically flawed, but otherwise (supoosedly) completely functional. Now my concern here was the number of C 4000's I saw on Ebay in this condition...there seemed to be quite a few. Was/is there an issue with this model that there would be so many refurb's on the market? Is there some kind of inherent flaw with the design or the electronics or something that would have caused so many returns? Based on the specs (ISO 400 equiv, 16 second exposure max, good f/ range, etc...might work well for basic astrophotography) and considering the prices for these particular cameras, they seem like they might be a good practical sollution for me, but obviously I'm a little concerned.

Any C 4000 users please feel free to chime in here...I'd like to get some opinions on this before I blow $200 (which I realize isn't a lot for a good camera, but again, its about all I can afford). I'm currently using a Polaroid PDC 700 for my digital efforts and I'm sure this camera in all respects is going to be superiour, I just don't want something thats going to have some kind of whacky problems (already got that with the Polaroid) or worse yet, quit on me a week after the 90 warrenty expires.

I've been looking around on the web for reviews and opinions, but haven't really come up with to much other then reviews that say their great cameras...just wondering if anyone experienced with them has a different opinion or any negative experiences with them.

I'm grateful for any and all opinions here as well as your collective experience and wisdom...thanks!

Bright Blessings & Gentle Breezes,
Jim

[tsiya]

Jim, they are excellent cameras, but limited by SM storage to 128mb. If You shoot in SQ they will hold a lot of pics, I shoot in tif format, just carry more cards. I am planning on getting another one, for back up. I've lost count of the shots fired with My C4000, never a problem. Most shots on My PB gallery, and all posted here, are from the C4000.
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v244/tsiya/

[Jim Walczak]

Hi tsiya,
If I could pick your brain for a moment, I have a couple of questions on that C-4000. Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my questions...I'm -very- grateful! I would also like to say that I looked at your gallery that you provided the link for...you do -very- nice work indeed! This does lead me to my first question though...is the color in those pics "natural" or did you do some processing in something like Photoshop? (and if so what kind and how much?)

Second Question...Is the lens on the camera removable? I just saw an optional lens kit on ebay for a wide angle lens for the C3000 and C4000 cameras and somehow I didn't think the lens was removable(?) If it is, this may allow the option of a T adaptor for me to use it for prime focus astrophotography efforts with my telescope...although if I can get some decent "eye piece projection" shots, I will be happy for the moment :-)

Third Question...I noticed that most of your pics were day time nature pics (except for 1 I believe)...have you used this camera much for night time or really dark shoots and what were the results? Again here, I'm really hoping to use this camera...or whatever camera I get, to some degree for astrophotography endevours as well as regular photography, so light sensitivity (as well as "noise" issues in the dark) is a real issue for me. Curious about your thoughts and experience with this.

Fourth question...ok this one's pretty easy...the camera does have or can use an AC adapter right? I've seen one or two digitals recently that use batteries -only- and I know how digital cameras can chew up batteries really quickly...just want to make sure I can plug it in to "wall juice" :-)

I know I had a couple of other questions, but it's 2 a.m. here and time for me to crash...will probably think of them right after I crawl in bed! LOL!

For the moment I'm not terribly worried about storage...as long as the camera is USB capable (which I'm pretty sure it is), I will probably be using it in conjunction with my laptop for most stuff. Again my main issues were/are the quality of the camera itself (especially since these are refurbs I'm lookin at) and of course the light sensitivity issues. Since I really can't afford both a new camera and a dedicated CCD astroimager, I'm hoping I can find a good compromise here :-)

Again, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to answer my questions! I have a couple of places to check out tommorow for digital cameras, but so far I'm leaning towards the C 4000's on Ebay.

Bright Blessings,
Jim

[tsiya]

I have edit software, but try to do no more than minor cleanup on an image. You do not need to remove the lens to use accessory lenses and filters, a lens tube surrrounds the lens and holds the add ons in front of it. As to low light, the recent shots of the Night heron were made very early in the morning,. Go back a little further, to the Dragonfly on the old oil drum, those were taken in almost full darkness, the C4000 auto focus is super.
I use Eveready 2300 MiAh NiMh batteries, they are amazing, if You try to use alkalines You will go broke, just get a couple of sets of NiMhs and a Radio Shack charger .Walmart sells the Eveready's about $18.00 for an 8 pak, equal to many, many alkailines, I have no idea how many times I've recharged My batteries, been using the same ones for over a year. USB is no problem, camera comes with basic edit software as well as cable, and power cable, but I never use the power cable. Bought My lenses and filters from Panwebi, on Ebay, good stuff. Take care, feel free to contact Me if I can help. C4000Z is a very good little camera.

[Jim Walczak]

Hi tsiya,
Thanks again for all of your help! I will most likely be ordering the camera sometime today...found a deal where I also get an extra 64mb smart media card (a must from what I've read) and 4AA mAh NiCad batteries & charger included for $224...seems like a really good deal altogether.

A couple more questions though if I may...more in regards to your work with that camera. I've been looking at some filter and lens kits for that camera and was just wondering if in those pics you have on your gallery(s) that you've done with the C 4000, if you had used any filters (or add on lenses) and if so what kind of filter on which pictures? This would be quite helpful to me as an amature photographer...I find one of the best ways I learn is through imitation .

On the picture in your PB gallery labeled ARBORETUM201.jpg (the butterfly on the blue flower) for example...was this shot with the C 4000 and if so did you use some kind of macro lens or something for that nice sharp focus with the blurred background (and if so what kind of lens and/or filter did you use?)?

On this tube adapter that goes over the lens that holds filters and such, does it actually thread onto the camera or does it simply "slip" over the lens? The one I'm looking at allows the use of 52mm filters and this would be a great advantage to me as I've seen some 52mm T-adapters that I should be able to use with my telescope.

Now this one I'm not sure if your going to know or not...again the filter kit I'm looking at for this camera is a 52mm. Now I have a number of 55mm filters already that I had gotten really inexpensivly for my 35mm Canon (and never got to use). Can you suggest any place where I could get a 52mm to 55mm adapter and would this be considered a "step up ring"?

Again, I am -very- grateful for all your help! Over the last couple of days I've looked at -a lot- of digital cameras, including a couple of Sony's and Fugi's in the same price range and feature-wise, these C 4000's just seem to blow everything else away. BTW, I haven't seen the vendor you mentioned yet (Panwebi) but I will certainly keep my eye out for this seller as I'm looking. I'm probably going to get at least a basic filter kit...it includes the adapter, a UV filter, polarizer filter and a flouresant light filter for $27.00 and I will also probably get a power chord and a portable power pack for it as well.

Bright Blessings & Gentle Breezes,
Jim

[tsiya]

I bought a set consisting of a 2X TC, a wide angle and a macro lens, with a circular polarizer, a UV and an FDL. The filters
are 52mm, the lenses go out side of them if You combine. No doubt name brand stuff is better, but I have no complaints. Don't get fooled by some of those bird on feeder shots, they are actually macros, using flash. I made a remote trigger using the electronics from a model car, I can set up a camera and fire it from over 100 feet away. All the Humming birds were caught that way.
I have a couple of sellers on Ebay that I've found I can trust , I will dig around later and see what they have, I just got a C720UZ in the mail that is absolutely perfect. Been playing with that since 5A.M., got to scrape off the mud, not that it would hurt My furniture.

[Jim Walczak]

tsiya,
Thanks ever so much again...I ordered the camera this morning along with the filter kit I mentioned and a power supply so everything should be here early next week. I'll update this thread sometime later next week and let ya know how it goes...and will probably have even more questions for ya!

I'm really excited about this...everything I've read (not only from you) says this is a really great camera. I found a couple of pretty indepth reviews on it and the only complaints were the small memory size (which again I got a 64 meg card in the deal) and the software (which also isn't a big deal since I use Photoshop 7 anyways). I'm really hoping that I'll get a couple of nice nights next week after I get the camera to test it out with my telescope!

I"m curious about your "remote trigger"...sounds like the kind of thing I might try and rig! If you ever get a couple of minutes to spare (and have an extra digital camera to take a picture with) I would love to see a pic of your setup. One of the things I've been tryin to take pictures of for years is bunny rabbits at campgrounds, but I can never get close enough without them scamperin away from me...this remote trigger sounds like it might be an ideal sollution! I tinker with electronics myself and I even have an old Tyco RC that I don't really "play" with anymore...might make a fun experiment :-)

Okies, thats it for now...
Bright Blessings,
Jim

[tsiya]

Jim, since You have RC experience, I think this pic will be all You need. One of these days I will find time to make one out of better materials, this just uses acrylic window glazing, an old Exacto hobby clamp, and a piece of an old arrow shaft.. It has held up for way over a thousand shots, still running. Reciever and batt box for 4AAs are in clear plastic box. Green clamp allows adjustment of stroke, just have to be sure it can't overload the camera button. C4000 goes to sleep when not fired, but if You run it on a power supply, it stays ready. I just nudge the joy stick every so often to wake it up, and it will be ready to shoot the next time.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...RC_RIG_002.jpg

[Jim Walczak]

tsiya,
Ok...I'm with ya so far...the design is simple enough and I even have a couple of those green Xacto clamps around here somewhere, but a silly thought crossed my mind earlier when I was thinkin about this....how do you focus and align? Do you just set it up with the camera aimed about where you want it and then when the bird (or whatever) flys in just hit the button? Not quite sure how you got it so well centered...do you have a vid cable running from the camera to a remote tv monitor or something as well? BTW, did you use this meathod for the "bug" pictures as well or was that just hand held? I really do apreciate your taking all the time to answer my questions...sorry to be such a pain .

I really can't wait to get this camera ! Hopefully they'll get it shipped right away and it'll be here by the weekend since it's only coming from New York (I'm in Ohio).

Thanks Again!
Jim

[tsiya]

You have to judge the light, get exposure set midrange. You will not believe the AF on the C4000 until You see it Yourself. You set things up to cover enough space around the feeder to catch birds landing on either side, the DOF is good enough to make sharp captures. BTW, product called Plastic Welder holds clamp in a notch cut in acrylic. I shoot tif format, it gives You enough image strength to do a lot of cropping and enlarging. A tif file from the C4000 is 11.2 MB.
The C720UZ that came yesterday is going to be another good one, but the C4000 is King of macro, look at the little treefrog I put in the gallery a little while ago. That is a 7/8 inch frog in actuality. I think it is where the military got the idea for desert camo.
I have a small ballhead I mount the whole rig on, using the tripod thread, on a little clamp base, I can hang it about anywhere. Use a filter over the lens, You will get birds sitting on the camera waiting for a space on the feeder. I use only the steering channel, You could use the motor control channel to pan the rig, I just haven't figured out how to get preset points, but it could be done.

[Jim Walczak]

Hiya tsiya,
Well the new camera got here today safe and sound! My initial impressions are -WOW-! I've been playin with the camera for about an hour now...still kinda wrestling with the manual settings a little...mostly from being out of practice I think. I've been just aiming and pushing a button for so long I think I forgot how to focus a camera! LOL! Your right about the AF though...pretty sweet. I already have an image loaded in my gallery...the one labled "Das Cat" and I'm -very- happy with the quality of the picture...absolutely blows away the Polaroid!!!!!!! Feel free to take a look when you have a few and let me know what you think. I'll be playin with the camera thru the coarse of the day and probably most of the weekend...the wife and I have a nice trip planned to the park so I can really test out the new camera.

So far my only real complaint is the stupid owners manual that came with it. The folks I got it from on Ebay only sent the "Basic" manual and it's not really much help (I think the full manual is on the software disk). I have the full manual in PDF format from Olympus's website on the PC, but it's a little hard to drag the computer out to the park with me! LOL! Also, The zoom lens seems a little "jerky"...not quite as smooth as I would like, but that seems to be par for most of the cameras in this price range that I looked at. Overall though so far I'd have to give the camera a 9 out of 10...I was looking at the C 5000's this last week and I actually think I like the 4000 better :-)

Anyways, thanks for all the help! I'm sure I'm gonna have a bunch more questions over the next couple of days and I'm grateful that you've sort of become my adopted "mentor" with the new camera :-)

Doh...almost forgot to ask...the picture of Inky I just took with the new camera...notice the eyes. I was having this problem -really- bad with the Polaroid, doesn't seem to be as bad with the Olympus, but any idea how to compensate for this? It seems to be a problem with digital cameras and critter eyes....-really- glary. In some of my pictures it makes a really neat effect, but in others it looks really bad. I'd be grateful for any insight on this...thanks!

Brightest Blessings,
Jim

[tsiya]

Funny thing, I can get the pretty gold in frog eyes using flash, cat eyes go bonkers. My cat is conditioned to close His eyes any time He sees the camera, guess I practiced too much on Him, but if I don't get too close the eyes are OK.
There is an adjustment for flash strength, haven't played with it scientifically yet, may help.
You likely won't need anything but the p mode most of the time, just set WB often and exposure. Camera is a light grabber, I rarely ever go above o.o. AE lock is a help with bright BG problems, but it is still best to try to line up better BG for nice captures. The shot of the old Fort here is one of the few times I used manual settings. Are You set up to right click and read exif, from images that have it encoded? A lot of images carry the exif, depends on what software the image was run through, but it helps to see what someone did to get a shot. I use Exifread, freeware from Joe Huang, works great.
You need to come visit on the Oly talk Forum, another good one, I don't know if they want Me linking Folks to other forums from here, Super Folks there, and a lot of master Oly drivers. rifleman@aug.com. I like this forum too, wish We could get it rocking and rolling, I know a lot of People are here watching, but don't have a clue how to get Them talking.
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v244/tsiya/

[Jim Walczak]

Hi tsiya,
Okies...spent the last two days shooting pics, both terrestrial and astro and so far the camera is pretty amazing . I'll have some of the new pics posted in the next day or two and I'd love your comments on them...and as promised, I do have a couple of questions...

Question #1. Ok...this is more of a tech nature sort of. You stated that you shoot your pics in the TIF mode...I've shot a couple both TIF and the SHQ and I'm not really seeing much of a difference (other then file size of course) and I'm curious why you favour the TIF mode?

Question #2 Another techy question that I'm not sure if your going to know. Any idea how I would go about using a "dark frame" to remove noise and artifacts from my astro images? I noticed on the really dark astropics that there are a few "blue" pixels (hot pixels?) that I know aren't stars so I shot a couple of pics with the camera lens covered to get just the noise from the camera and I want to use this to subtract the noise from some of my astropics.

BTW...is it just me or is there a little bit of shutter lag with this camera? Seems like it takes a second from when I push the shutter button to when it actually takes the pic...is this normal? The reason I ask is with my Polaroid PDC 700 it fires the pic as soon as you press the button.

I know there were some other questions, but I forgot to write them down as I thought of them (oppss)...hopefully I'll think of them later .

As always, thanks for any Comments and suggestions!

Bright Blessings,
Jim

[tsiya]

Always a little lag, C4000 is better than most. It has a pixel mapping program, will take care of that on it's own, function is in menu. Best not to overuse it. Keep full time AF "on" all the time, batteries can handle it.
In tif, I start with twice the data as from the next best, I can do more enlarging that way. If I was just taking shots on a casual basis, shq is very good. I am always messing around trying to stretch things to the limit, extra just helps Me get away with it. I am always afraid that if I go for faster loading and smaller file, I will get that one perfect shot We all dream about, and the pixels will be too anemic to do anything with. Same with the C720UZ and the C2500L, at 3.0MP and 2.1MP, cramming power into every pixel gets even more important. I keep lusting after OLYs, no telling what it will be next, but it is the only worthwhile bad habit I still have, having learned My lesson about "cigarettes, and whiskey, and wild, wild women" some time ago. I am likely the only one here old enough to remember that song!
I found early on that I was going to be running with some big cameras, little guys don't do so bad if You let them go for it. I used to run Beagles with Foxhounds My Buddies had, Beagles usually made Me very proud.
Come introduce Yourself here, another nice place to be.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1008
I sure am glad You are enjoyng the camera. There are OLY Folks all over the place, nicest bunch of fanatics You could ever hope to meet.
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v244/tsiya/